(April 24, 2012 at 11:36 am)NoMoreFaith Wrote: Given axiomatic assumptions that reality exists and that you can make predictions based upon that reality.
If you have a problem with that, you must be very scared you're going to fall through the floor and fall apart at any given moment.
It seens you did not understand my point. Can you proof nature is all there is ?
Quote:You reject naturalism, and then claim what is possible and impossible in the natural universe..
according to wiki :
Naturalism commonly refers to the viewpoint that laws of nature (as opposed to supernatural ones) operate in the universe, and that nothing exists beyond the natural universe or, if it does, it does not affect the natural universe.
i was referring to that viewpoint.
(April 24, 2012 at 10:02 am)Jireh Wrote: You're just building a strawman that has been pointed out no less than 10 times now.
nothing means the absence of any thing. Therefore, it has no potentialities.
Whatelse needs to be defined about what nothing means ?
Quote:Your argument presupposes the existence of time prior to the existence of this universe in order for an eternal God to "decide" to create the universe from his metaphysical realm.
No. Time did not exist beyond the universe.
Is "Timeless" Divine Action Coherent?
Quote:The first moment of time is the moment of God's creative act and of creation's simultaneous coming to be.
http://philofreligion.homestead.com/files/timeless.htm
Quote:God's bringing about the universe is the total and direct dependence of the contingent universe on the divine will. Such a relation of dependence does not require that God be located in time. Thus, divine timeless action is not incoherent.
http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billcraig...unbau.html
Quote:The Creator may be conceived to be causally, but not temporally, prior to the origin of the universe, such that the act of causing the universe to begin to exist is simultaneous with its beginning to exist.
Contemporary philosophical discussions of causal directionality deal routinely with cases in which cause and effect are simultaneous; indeed, a good case can be made that all temporal causal relations involve the simultaneity of cause and effect.
