(July 2, 2012 at 4:03 pm)Godschild Wrote: I'm not blackmailed, pushed or threatened, I make my own decisions based on what I see as the truth, no matter what you say will change this, you should stop wasting your time telling people what you want them to be, arrogant you are.
As far as the wallet deal that's old hat get something new, I'm tired of such foolishness.
Brian37 Wrote:If it is a choice then why the concept of hell? You didn't set up hell, and you were not asked before you were born if you wanted to take the risk of life or even maturing to the age of making the"choice". What knowledge of choice when your parents had sex did you have AT THAT MOMENT" What consent did you have, what knowledge did you have?
You're right I had no choice in my birth, however I'm glad God wanted me and gave me a chance to make the choice of Him or hell. Hell and heaven are not concepts, they are real, all your rejection of them can not change them into a story book tale. I can not prove to you that God, heaven or hell are real, you are the only one who can make that decision, yes it is your choice. However you on the other hand can not disprove my belief, and you can in no way disprove my experiences with God. I know they are real and in the end, for me that is all that matters.
Brian37 Wrote:The truth is you fell for your superstition, not because heaven or hell are real, but because you needed an emotional crutch. If you had been born in Saudi Arabia you'd be raised a Muslim and swallow their superstitions, and pontificate about their promises of their version of heaven and fear their threats of hell.
I fell to no superstition and as I said above you can not prove different. I came to Christ later in my life, after I was away from home actually married to a wife who was not particularly religious. Who is to say I would not have become a Christian if I were born in any part of the Middle East, many have converted more than you might think. The problem with that little scenario is this, I was born where I was and that pertains to me and there is no need to speculate what would have happened since your scenario did not take place.
Brian37 Wrote:Heaven and hell are broken concepts as claims. BUT if believers want to claim them, STRICTLY AS CLAIMS, the claim NO MATTER THE RELIGION, can only be seen rightfully as the blackmail it is.
They are reality, not broken concepts, again you express an opinion you can not prove. If it were blackmail why would you choose different from my choice, granting you believed the God of scripture existed.
Brian37 Wrote:You falsely see yourself as having a choice, because your abuser has already emotionally convinced you you have a choice.
I do not see any motif AS A CLAIM, when it gives you two choices
1. Be good and I'll give you a cookie
2. Defy me and I'll beat the shit out of you.
How is that moral? You use "choice" as a cop out. The problem is you value emotions over your rightful human right of your OWN CONSENT, which you have willfully forgone for a utopia you cannot prove exists.
If you're referring to my parents it's a good thing you're not standing in front of me, the last person who did that in my face has real regrets for doing so. You can say about me what you want, leave out the good people who raised me. Your choice of the same old ideas that hold no water make it hard to have a debate. There is no "cop out" It's your problem you do not know God or even care to, I actually have no responsibility in that other than telling people about Christ, after that it's all on you and you alone. I do value emotions they are what makes life real I can not imagine living without them.
Brain37 Wrote:The god/s of Abraham AS CHARACTERS, not real gods, value you as pawns, toys, minions, not to help you out, but to gain club members as per the writings of the respective books.
A choice, if you value yourself would be, you could not believe, and not want to hang out with anyone you don't chose, and if that person values human dignity, they wont try to bribe you, or threaten you, they will simply let you go your separate ways, WITHOUT PUNISHMENT.
Now I see your problem, you know nothing about responsibility, respect, or consequences of life, you have never understood what it means to be an adult. I personally was taught these things, so that when I was old enough to make decisions I had the tools to do so.
'Brian37 Wrote:Always keep in mind when I argue against your claim, I am not arguing against any real god. I am arguing against the claim you make.
Please if I have a choice, and you claim I have a choice, and I say I don't believe, where do I end up after I die?
The answer you asked for in your last question is hell. You have been given ample opportunity to investigate and if you do not choose to do so then this is going to be what you asked for. Children are told certain foods are good for them and taste good, yet because of the way it looks they reject it, if they would only try they would find what they were told to be true.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
