Does the Bible Contradict Itself?

[spockrates]

Does a quote have to be accurately attributed to be true? For example, more than 2,300 years ago Socrates said, "Birds of a feather flock together." Now someone might say that Socrates was the first to say it, for Plato's dialogs are the oldest extant documents to contain the quote. But after speaking the words, Socrates said the proverb was an extremely old one. We might never know who first uttered the words, but that doesn't mean they're any less true, I think. How about you? (Nice avatar, BTW. Looks familiar. Is that a photo of you, or someone you admire?)

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Thanks Grimesy. Yes I like BibleGateway.com. In response to the apparent contradiction you suggested, it's possible it's a case of mistranslation. Saul had many daughters. The NIV translates the passage this way:

But the king took Armoni and Mephibosheth, the two sons of Aiah’s daughter Rizpah, whom she had borne to Saul, together with the five sons of Saul’s daughter Merab,[a] whom she had borne to Adriel son of Barzillai the Meholathite.

(2 Samuel 21:8)

The footnotes for the passage from that version:

(a) 2 Samuel 21:8 Two Hebrew manuscripts, some Septuagint manuscripts and Syriac (see also 1 Samuel 18:19); most Hebrew and Septuagint manuscripts Michal

That Saul had a daughter by that name is evident from another passage:

Saul said to David, “Here is my older daughter Merab. I will give her to you in marriage; only serve me bravely and fight the battles of the Lord.” For Saul said to himself, “I will not raise a hand against him. Let the Philistines do that!”

(1 Samuel 18:17)

One thing I find interesting is that biblical scholars usually use the translation that is supported by a majority of the extant texts. In this case, the opposite was done. One exception to the rule is to use an alternate translation if it is reliable and older than the majority of the texts--the reasoning being that older texts are closer to the original autographs, and therefore more accurate. There is debate among the scholars regarding whether this is a good practice, or not, it it explains several of the differences amoung modern translations. Not sure if this was why the alternate translation was chosen in this case. It's worthy of further inquiry. Perhaps one of us should write a letter to the publishers of the NIV asking them to explain?

"And he cast down the pieces of silver into the temple and departed, and went out and hanged himself." (MAT 27:5)

"And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out." (ACT 1:18)

This is one of the best known biblical contradictions regarding the fate of Judas. Please don't say it's a mistranslation.

Regards

Grimesy

Yes, I'm familiar with this one. The first passage explains the method he used for his own demise. The second explains the result of his demise: No one cut his body down, so it decayed and the corpse fell free from the rope and burst when it hit the ground (pretty graphic, I'd say). The inference: He died alone, with no one who cared enough to give him a decent burial.

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There are errors in translation, yes. One should be wary of these and take steps to avoid being misinformed by them. Comparing different versions (as was done in the example) is one way. The question to ask is how prevalent are these? Are they rare, or are they found everywhere throughout the text?

The argument biblical scholars make for the reliability of the text is that there are thousands of extant manuscripts (MSS), so the errors are easier for them to spot and weed out, than they are for other ancient texts. An error found in 20 MSS might not be present in 2,000 others.

Not sure what you mean by errors that are not obvious. Do you mean errors that are unknown, or errors that are known only by a few, or errors that are believed to be errors by some but rejected by many?

Are you saying that there does not exist a bible that is free from errors or mistranslation ?

Regards

Grimesy

I'd say modern translations (such as the NIV) are based on the most recent scholarship, and therefore less prone to mistranslation. But yes, I would not go so far as to say any translation is 100% free of error.

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I'm wondering whether there are any biblical passages that contradict one another. Please provide two contradictory passages for discussion and explain why they result in a contradiction. Thanks.

Here's another one about Jesus's last words :-

MAT 27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost."

LUK 23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."

JOH 19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."

I think that's enough examples now, but there are many more I'm sure.

Regards

Grimesy

Notice that Matthew writes, "...and when he cried again," he does not indicate what Jesus said when he cried out the last time. John, also does not indicate whether or not Jesus said anything after he said, "It is finished." Luke is the only one who appears to be saying that the words he quotes were the last words of Christ. It is quite possible that Jesus spoke all of these words while suffering his prolonged execution.