RE: The argument against "evil", theists please come to the defense.
July 20, 2012 at 11:12 am
(This post was last modified: July 20, 2012 at 11:13 am by Skepsis.)
(July 20, 2012 at 10:46 am)MysticKnight Wrote: But can he bestow the virtues without us going through the struggle?I dunno, could he create the universe in any fashion he wanted? If so, then the answer is yes,he could.
Can he gives us the value of struggle and patience in adversity, without having gone through it?
This answer is silly, though, as it assumes that virtues are necessary in a world without evil.
Quote:But this argument is meant to show this is not true, and not only that, since all suferring bring about some character building in any human...then it's worth it, since sufferring is trivial given a gazillion years of peace."Basically, what good came to the mental guy? He can never improve. This is injustice, an evil inflicted directly by God."
Literally the next sentence.
Quote:It's possible his suferring for a short period relative to the infinite period of peace, and is worth the character building of those trying to find cures and help him, because in the long run, as well, given I don't suscribe to a religion, it can be that he will be sane in another world to come with memory of whom he was, and that world has conflict and evil, and allows character building as well but the final destination, is peace without suferring..So you got to it after all?
You are nw stacking unproven claims on top of unproven claims. Another world with conflict and evil stands as justification for another world's natural evil?
This is just silly.
Quote:From the perspective, of the hard things people face, and we face as humanity together, they give opportunity for character building, which according to premise 3, is a worthy goal.Nope- like I have said before, why not simply create a universe where humans inherently have these qualities at birth?
Quote:lol so if God creates a world with perfect peace and no death, you say it's sufferring too, you might as well not want of God to created anything?Wait, hold on. Who is claiming that God could create any universe he wants? Is that not true?
If it is true and he could have created whatever world he wanted, then why does it seem impossible for there to be a world without suffering?
It's not my burden to prove there are worlds without suffering. It was my point that a world with no death is a world of infinite boredom where you can't even phase to nonexistence to escape. That, to me, is true torture.
Quote:Well it's similar to how only the Designer sets up a system where we die, but no one has the right to kill an innocent person, just because God has the right to.That literally explained nothing. Like, I got less from those sentences than from the 20 minute period I tried to meditate in my deconversion process.
I am pretty sure you just rephrased the sentence.
Quote:But how we react to it makes us whom we are. Without evil and good in combat, there is less potential of higher character building....I thought your God could make te universe as he pleased? Once again, why not make humans inherently moral with great virtue and character?
Quote:True wrote this at around 3:00 am.K.
(July 20, 2012 at 10:46 am)MysticKnight Wrote:Wait, what? Why do virtues have any value at all if they are unnecessary? If they play no part in the universe because they are unneeded, then why are they inherently good?Skepsis Wrote:Why is it a virtue to combat evil if there isn't any and never will be?
Exactly a world without evil, would lack those virtues. And we wouldn't be able to choose our character and build our character out of free-will, as much as we are able to do so now.
The theists wouldn't touch this thread with a ten-foot pole. They know the argument of evil is the bane of any goodness they see in their God, and want to avoid that revelation if possible.
My conclusion is that there is no reason to believe any of the dogmas of traditional theology and, further, that there is no reason to wish that they were true.
Man, in so far as he is not subject to natural forces, is free to work out his own destiny. The responsibility is his, and so is the opportunity.
-Bertrand Russell
Man, in so far as he is not subject to natural forces, is free to work out his own destiny. The responsibility is his, and so is the opportunity.
-Bertrand Russell