The argument against "evil", theists please come to the defense.

[fr0d0]

Hey Skep. I'm not thin skinned. Ask around. If you say you're not being insulting and you are, I have a conflict to resolve somehow. I'm pretty good with the wind ups I like to think. But I'm trying to get an opinion out of you, and also be a good boy.

So your counter argument is: you agree!

Your argument remains that only a loving God would create the universe because suffering and love are necessarily found in conjunction in reality.[/quote ]

Well no, my argument is that the Christian concept of god as first cause is that only a positive force could possibility be that first cause. Because any element of negativity would defeat the creative event. Simple as that.

With this, I take it, you have no issue.

[quote='Skepsis' pid='314697' dateline='1343088831']
If you are arguing that a loving God ought to be willing to create this world, you are sadly mistaken. He shouldn't be willing to because an infinitely loving God would prefer no existence to an existence of suffering.

And like I responded, god is not responsible for evil/ the negative force, that necessarily, in physics, opposes him. God works with physics, in that he provides the positive. In him is life.

Now a notion of anti physics; of life being possible without death, is logically impossible. It kinda wrecks the happy train before it has chance to leave the station. As many atheist will attest: what we have to do is accept reality as it is. God cannot be logically impossible. I think you conceded that above. So God could not create happy land.

unnecessary suffering

Please explain how any suffering is unnecessary. If it is necessary for this logical world to function, then it is encompassed in Gods design. We may not understand fully the scientific processes. But I doubt very much that any scientist would agree that it (the process of suffering as part of life) would be illogical.

Your argument also doesn't address unnecessary suffering at all.

My argument specifically confronts suffering. There is no such thing as unnecessary suffering in this reality. Only in your fantasy reality, where the illogical is possible.

God cannot logically remove suffering from a logical world, so an argument against the need for suffering has to dismiss logic.

Thinking back, I feel it is directly contradictory for a God to invalidate his own nature by acting differently than his nature dictates.

God never acts contrary to his nature. I've shown what constituted Gods actions, and how the negative counter is not God.

This would make the creation of a world with evil impossible for a loving God.

The creation of a world without evil is logically impossible full stop. It does not negate the presence of an all loving god, who's presence serves to counter evil.

"God's creation is this reality.", you say.
And then you chide me for dismissing it with a "nope"?
You have yet to back that one up

How are you proposing that from a Christian viewpoint, that this isn't correct?

If God = creator, then creation (ie: this reality) is what God created. I fail to see the reason behind your objection here. Please explain.