(August 30, 2012 at 1:54 am)Undeceived Wrote:(August 30, 2012 at 12:49 am)greneknight Wrote: -complexity of the cellWhere is this 'simpler eye'? For a long time the trilobite eye was considered the earliest and simplest version of the eye. Even it is irreducibly complex: http://www.create.ab.ca/the-trilobite-ey...ex-design/
No big deal. It used to be that people say the human eye was irreducibly complex and so voila! God must have made it. It was subsequently found that the simpler eye which we thought could serve no purpose and couldn't have existed exists in some organisms and they're perfectly functioning. Irreducible complexity is bunkum - the language of my fellow believers who refuse to see the light.
Has another been discovered? Or are Evolutionists simply imagining how a simpler eye might work?
Quote:-fine-tuning of the universeOn the contrary, many Evolutionists today claim Evolution was bound more or less to one inevitable path. Carbon and H2O are the vital elements of life. Their bonding properties and states of matter make life trillions of times more likely to have chosen them as its ingredients--as indeed it has. Our earth is conveniently fine-tuned to Carbon and H2O forms of life.
This is laughable. We ask about fine-tuning because we happen to live in such a universe. If the universe had not formed in a manner to support life and collapsed and another big bang happened, what's the big deal. Just wait until finally a big bang happens in a manner where things appear fine-tuned and life can form and then someone is going to say fine tuning is caused by a creator. You see my point. I also read somewhere that the constants aren't so do-or-die. Apparently if you don't have the same constants, it may very well be that the universe would take a very different state from what we are used to and other forms could take shape and intelligent life forms that evolved in such a different universe will say theirs are the only constants that could support life and have a "stable" universe.
Quote:-depth of human evilEvolution believes were are survival-based organisms. As the man explained, animals do not desire to inflict pain apart from survival purposes. Why do humans?
What in God's name can that have any bearing on whether God exists? An evil T-Rex is proof that God exists? Oh, for crying out loud!
Quote:-fact of moralityIn the debate he used an illustration of a man giving up his seat for an old lady he didn’t know. Or helping children in third-world countries. As survival-driven organisms, we should have the tendency to compete against our own species. If the person on the receiving end of altruism does not carry your genes or give you any kickback, there is no reason for you to help them. In fact, you are fighting the evolutionary process. Genes of weaker, pitiable humans are passed on. In the case of the old lady, not at all. Why would we retain a 'morality' mutation that drives our species backwards?
Same as above. What about morality that allows you to say, "Voila! God exists!!!!"
Quote:-purpose of human reason and search for truthSorry. By purpose I meant the reason we have human reason and a desire for truth. Without God in the picture we are animals geared for survival. We seek only wants and needs. A desire for truth does not aid our survival. A gorilla does not look beneath the surface for hidden truths, gauging other gorillas for lies. It sees and reacts. Everything it sees is true. And if it wanted any additional information it would lose sight of what's really important--propagation. This goes back to the depth of human evil. By constantly deceiving one another to get the upper hand, we are hurting our species. If we did not lie or cheat, Evolution would be better off. Neither would Evolution have to produce morality to fix its mistake.
Purpose of human reason? That's a cart-before-the-horse reasoning.
Since FallentoReason has given such good answers, I'll just add something about morality and the example of acts of kindness that Undeceived posted. Dawkins gave a good explanation about this. Animals that live in communities tend to do acts of kindness because if you are kind, others may reciprocate and you survive better. I have newspaper cuttings of other primates showing acts of kindness even where there is no reciprocity. It's not just confined to us. It may be a misfiring but there's nothing judgmental or wrong about a misfiring.
