RE: My Defense of Christianity.
August 31, 2012 at 11:13 am
(This post was last modified: August 31, 2012 at 11:22 am by Abel.)
(August 31, 2012 at 10:47 am)FallentoReason Wrote:(August 31, 2012 at 10:33 am)Abel Wrote: Actually there are several verses that confirm the Deity of Christ:
Peter affirms Jesus' deity: Mark 8:29 And he saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Peter answereth and saith unto him, Thou art the Christ.
Demons admit Jesus was God: Luke 4:41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.
Jesus, Himself, said He was God: Mark 14:61-62 But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed? And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Before any of this becomes meaningful, there's some things that need to be established, namely, that Mark, Matthew, Luke and John were indeed the people who wrote the Gospels attributed to them. The problem is that the only proof for this comes from 'tradition'. If we're being specific, then tradition actually means to say that the Gospels never get quoted by name until 185 C.E. No early church father ever refers to the four Gospel authors by name. In other words, they're written anonymously, with the first one (Mark) heavily using the OT as the source for Jesus' life. Somewhere in this thread I gave 3 examples of details about the crucifixion that came straight from Psalm 22 (e.g. The last words of Jesus came from Psalm 22:1).
The Gospels cannot be used to prove any detail of a human by the name of Jesus until evidence shows they are genuine history.
That’s not true. Papias of Hierapolis confirmed Matthew as the author attributed to him. Irenaeus and Papias both endorsed Mark as the Gospel writer. Clement of Alexandria, Origen, and Tertullian, all believed that the Gospel of Luke was written by Luke. Polycarp was an actual disciple of John. There is evidence for authorship of the Gospels.
(August 31, 2012 at 10:46 am)greneknight Wrote:(August 31, 2012 at 10:33 am)Abel Wrote: Actually there are several verses that confirm the Deity of Christ:
Peter affirms Jesus' deity: Mark 8:29 And he saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Peter answereth and saith unto him, Thou art the Christ.
No, in Jewish understanding, the Messiah or Christ is NEVER divine. It's a later Christian idea that the Messiah or Christ is divine.
Quote:Demons admit Jesus was God: Luke 4:41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.
Same argument. Christ or messiah is never divine. The term "Son of God" is used in the OT and NOT ONCE is it used to denote divinity.
Quote:Jesus, Himself, said He was God: Mark 14:61-62 But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed? And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Same point. You are wrong. Jesus did not claim to be God at all.
You obviously do not know Greek or Hebrew. In most of the O.T. the “sons of God” referred to angels. However, in the book of Daniel, there is a direct reference to a Holy “Son of God” which means exactly what it says.
Now, in the N.T. the reference to the Christ or Messiah was a reference to the Anointed One which would come directly from God. The demons clearly state that Jesus was God in the flesh. When asked if He was the Son of God, Jesus replied “I am”. This is interesting because this was the exact term God identified Himself to Moses. He said “I Am” hath sent thee.
Even the religious leaders understood Jesus claimed to be God: John 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
No, I am not wrong.