RE: Why Secular Morality is Superior
September 7, 2012 at 11:06 am
(This post was last modified: September 7, 2012 at 11:18 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(September 7, 2012 at 10:37 am)elunico13 Wrote: The belief that we are time + matter + chance doesn't account for the most basic assumptions we take for granted. In this thread it would be morality.Who thinks we're time, matter, and chance? Even so, you'll have to explain why these things don't account for morality.
Quote:The best any atheist can give is a single man's opinion or a group of men's opinion on what is good and what is evil.Well, that's probably not the best that any atheist can do, but suppose it were, what do you think your religious beliefs are if not the bolded bit above? I know..I know, something about a ghost putting ideas into peoples heads, but until you can fork over the ghost I'm afraid that it's just you (and yours) making these proclamations of what is or is not moral.
Quote:It's arbitrary.See the above, and explain how the commands of a god would be something other than arbitrary, if you have the time.
Quote:Anyone or group of people can come up with their own morality w/o considering yours..They do, but the second bit is just a tad off. When two conflicting moralities come into contact with each other they are all but forced to consider their similarities and differences (and , in many cases, whether or not they can co-exist with each other from that point on- we've had middling to terrible success in this regard until recently).
Quote:It is inconsistant of the atheist to think that humanity should adhere to some universal code of behavior.Why, you think that humanity should adhere to a universal moral code, do you not? You are unable to explain to me why this particular universal code doesn't fall to the same criticisms you offer for "the atheists" position (wtf you think that is). I just don't believe in any gods, that doesn't mean I wouldn't like to see a uniform and well reasoned morality applied the world over (I'm easy too, I;d like to allow for just a little bit of irrationality - we're human after all-). How this is inconsistent with my not believing in a god is beyond me - the two have jack shit to do with one another-. Please try to remember this. God has nothing to do with anything that I ponder over. When I think about morality -god is absent from consideration-. When I think about fishing - god is absent-. When I think about scratching my ass -still no god involved-. It would be difficult to be inconsistent with a non-issue.
Quote:Why would a material world feel compelled to obey immaterial laws?This question is strange...coming from a christian......
Quote:Where do you get compassion from in a material only world?Same place you do, I was born with it (right here, in the material world.....same as yourself).
Quote: It is very arbitrary of the atheist to choose some immaterial "urges" like conscience or compassion, laws of logic or immaterial "oughts" for morality and reject the immaterial God that makes these intelligible.Except that A; your god does no such thing - and B: these things you mentioned have very material representations and benefits (which, for me, is why I like to argue for them).
Quote:Man was made in the biblical God's likeness.You got that one just a wee bit reversed, but no worries.
Quote:We rejct him and so there are consequences to that.Absolutely, consequences like increased prosperity and decreased violence.
Quote:It makes sense that we would be held accountable to him.To whom does this make sense, and please don't tell me that it does, show me that it does. You won't get past the first step. We cannot be held accountable for anything to a creature that does not exist. End of.
Quote: The truth of it isn't subject to your belief nor your understanding.Mirror mirror, on the wall....
Quote:If you reject that then don't impose any immaterial "oughts" or codes of behavior or laws of logic on yourself or anyone else. Be consistant and deal with the material world only.So, supposing there were no eye in the sky...you can see no reason that we might want to issue moral proclamations? No god - rape is a go. No god - murder is a go. No god - theft is a go. I'm starting to feel very uncomfortable with the knowledge that you may actually believe this...and that there are people who would agree with you......
Quote:Mere opinion is not a basis for morality. Richard dawkins even said that there is no clear line to be drawn between man and animal. Why then can't we act like them too?We do, but simply being an animal doesn't mean you have to do some specific thing. You see many giraffes grouping up into prides and hunting water buffalo? No, you do not. Human animals have their own sets of behavior, just like all of the rest, and this whole "morality" bit is one of those things. Even in this limited group of animals, some don't exhibit this behavior (either in proclamation or adherence) - so we sequester them (specifically in the case of non-adherence), presumably so that they don't interfere with those that do.
Quote: Why are you even trying to reason with me if this is how I supposedly evovled? You should see it as agenda vs. agenda. But then the problem of arbitrarly choosing one immaterial concept over another arises.Reason being a wonderful tool made possible by that wonderfully evolved brain of yours. You know, common behavior of the human animal - leveraging the grey matter.
Quote:Self aware, think, feel, compassion? So these immaterial urges you feel compelled to follow? Lots of inconsistancy throughout your entire post.Meh, you assume that they are immaterial, they may not be. Supposing they were, if they were contingent on the material..your criticisms would mean precisely what?
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