RE: OK Christians. your chance. Convince me of God.
September 18, 2012 at 9:08 pm
(This post was last modified: September 18, 2012 at 9:23 pm by Drich.)
[quote='greneknight' pid='337914' dateline='1347976346']
[quote]Nobody chooses in his heart not to believe in God. [/quote]I did. I Choose not to believe in God till He showed Himself to me. I know I am not the only one who feel/felt this way.
[quote] It's just that God is playing such a wonderfully successful game of hide-and-seek that there is not the smallest trace of evidence of his existence. [/quote]So.. You Choose not to believe in God untill your prerequsits have been met? Sounds like a familiar story.
[quote] Anyone with some intelligence is bound to conclude that a being that claims to be all-loving, all-compassionate and interfering in human affairs and even answers prayers (can you believe that?) [/quote]Only if you can show book chapter and verse. Otherwise I would dismiss these claims as religious well wishing. I would contend that God does not claim these things. If you do all you have to provide is book chapter and verse.
[quote]should at least leave a blazing trail of evidence of his existence.[/quote]Why would He do that? Were we not put on this earth to make an eternal choice as to where we WANT to spend eternity? The WANT in that desision would be Gone if There was absolute proof. Everyone would make their desision on the basis of self preservation and Love/Want for God would have nothing to do with their desision. As it is now there is room for the self righteous to truthfully judge God according to his own hearts desire and their eternal fates truly reflect the condition of their heart and not the need to save themselves from eternal seperation/The second death.
[quote]But to have zilch evidence speaks loudly of his non-existence. Atheists and rational Christians are just being honest when we dispute the supernatural bits of religion.[/quote]To this I agree 100%. However to those who ask, seek and Knock as Christ commands in Luke 11 God promises to provide 'proof.' This is so that the 'believer' knows of the choice He had made is a legitmate one. This 'proof' is for the believer specifically and can be eaisly dismissed by others. Why? to perserve the intergerity of their desisions.
[quote='Stimbo' pid='337922' dateline='1347977270']
Whatever happened to 1 Peter 3:15, Ditch? Shouldn't you "be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you"?
[/quote]
Hedonismbot, didn't ask about the joy that is with in me. He asked to be convinced of God. To which I pointed to the only proof of God that is offered. By God through the Gift of the Holy Spirit.
(Which just so happens to be the source of said joy.)
;P
[quote='TaraJo' pid='337923' dateline='1347977324']
[quote]I made this deal with the almighty a long time ago.[/quote]
..and He signed off on said deal?
[quote] I figure, if god is all knowing, it knows what criteria would have to be met to prove its existence to me. If god is all powerful, meeting that criteria is well within its reach. [/quote]You have acknoweledged God is all knowing and All powerful, and yet you command Him to seek you to save Your soul? Respectfully: Doesn't this sound silly to you? Who are you to command god to Ask, Seek and Knock for yoour attention? Isn't the Death of His Son enough for you?
Let me put it this way. If you were invited to the White House for a presidential dinner with all the world leaders present, would you demand a change of venue and demand to the world leaders that they meet you on their terms? If you did how many world leaders do you think would meet you on your terms simply because you demanded it?
[quote] If god is as omnibenevolent as believers say and it tortures non-believers for eternity because of disbelief, logic follows that said god would be able to convince me of its existence and would be strongly motivated to do so.[/quote]No where in the bible does it say God is Omni benevolent. This is a false doctrine spun from the Greek word Agape'. It mean an limitless love. God's love maybe limitless, but it remains conditional. In that God's limitless love is reserved for those who Love and Choose Him. Not all are entitled to God's Love.
[quote] So far, I haven't seen any supernatural deity so much as lift a finger to reveal themselves to me.[/quote]Nor will you. For you like everyone else has been commanded to humble themselves to God. If you do then God WILL Lift you up.
[quote]So I made a deal with anything out there you might consider a god: show me that you actually exist and I'll worship you.[/quote]I think mohamad made a simlar 'deal.' For God is not the only being out there who will answer a plea.
[quote] I haven't had any responses; this silence leads me to believe that god either doesn't exist or wants me to believe it doesn't exist (and if my disbelief is part of god's plan, who am I to question gods plan?).[/quote]Your disbelief or rather you ablity to disbelieve is apart of God's plan.
[quote]Nobody chooses in his heart not to believe in God. [/quote]I did. I Choose not to believe in God till He showed Himself to me. I know I am not the only one who feel/felt this way.
[quote] It's just that God is playing such a wonderfully successful game of hide-and-seek that there is not the smallest trace of evidence of his existence. [/quote]So.. You Choose not to believe in God untill your prerequsits have been met? Sounds like a familiar story.
[quote] Anyone with some intelligence is bound to conclude that a being that claims to be all-loving, all-compassionate and interfering in human affairs and even answers prayers (can you believe that?) [/quote]Only if you can show book chapter and verse. Otherwise I would dismiss these claims as religious well wishing. I would contend that God does not claim these things. If you do all you have to provide is book chapter and verse.
[quote]should at least leave a blazing trail of evidence of his existence.[/quote]Why would He do that? Were we not put on this earth to make an eternal choice as to where we WANT to spend eternity? The WANT in that desision would be Gone if There was absolute proof. Everyone would make their desision on the basis of self preservation and Love/Want for God would have nothing to do with their desision. As it is now there is room for the self righteous to truthfully judge God according to his own hearts desire and their eternal fates truly reflect the condition of their heart and not the need to save themselves from eternal seperation/The second death.
[quote]But to have zilch evidence speaks loudly of his non-existence. Atheists and rational Christians are just being honest when we dispute the supernatural bits of religion.[/quote]To this I agree 100%. However to those who ask, seek and Knock as Christ commands in Luke 11 God promises to provide 'proof.' This is so that the 'believer' knows of the choice He had made is a legitmate one. This 'proof' is for the believer specifically and can be eaisly dismissed by others. Why? to perserve the intergerity of their desisions.
[quote='Stimbo' pid='337922' dateline='1347977270']
Whatever happened to 1 Peter 3:15, Ditch? Shouldn't you "be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you"?
[/quote]
Hedonismbot, didn't ask about the joy that is with in me. He asked to be convinced of God. To which I pointed to the only proof of God that is offered. By God through the Gift of the Holy Spirit.
(Which just so happens to be the source of said joy.)
;P
[quote='TaraJo' pid='337923' dateline='1347977324']
[quote]I made this deal with the almighty a long time ago.[/quote]
..and He signed off on said deal?[quote] I figure, if god is all knowing, it knows what criteria would have to be met to prove its existence to me. If god is all powerful, meeting that criteria is well within its reach. [/quote]You have acknoweledged God is all knowing and All powerful, and yet you command Him to seek you to save Your soul? Respectfully: Doesn't this sound silly to you? Who are you to command god to Ask, Seek and Knock for yoour attention? Isn't the Death of His Son enough for you?
Let me put it this way. If you were invited to the White House for a presidential dinner with all the world leaders present, would you demand a change of venue and demand to the world leaders that they meet you on their terms? If you did how many world leaders do you think would meet you on your terms simply because you demanded it?
[quote] If god is as omnibenevolent as believers say and it tortures non-believers for eternity because of disbelief, logic follows that said god would be able to convince me of its existence and would be strongly motivated to do so.[/quote]No where in the bible does it say God is Omni benevolent. This is a false doctrine spun from the Greek word Agape'. It mean an limitless love. God's love maybe limitless, but it remains conditional. In that God's limitless love is reserved for those who Love and Choose Him. Not all are entitled to God's Love.
[quote] So far, I haven't seen any supernatural deity so much as lift a finger to reveal themselves to me.[/quote]Nor will you. For you like everyone else has been commanded to humble themselves to God. If you do then God WILL Lift you up.
[quote]So I made a deal with anything out there you might consider a god: show me that you actually exist and I'll worship you.[/quote]I think mohamad made a simlar 'deal.' For God is not the only being out there who will answer a plea.
[quote] I haven't had any responses; this silence leads me to believe that god either doesn't exist or wants me to believe it doesn't exist (and if my disbelief is part of god's plan, who am I to question gods plan?).[/quote]Your disbelief or rather you ablity to disbelieve is apart of God's plan.
