RE: OK Christians. your chance. Convince me of God.
September 26, 2012 at 9:05 am
(This post was last modified: September 26, 2012 at 9:08 am by Cyberman.)
(September 25, 2012 at 9:55 pm)treshbond Wrote: Personally I don't have any problem with accepting the supernatural as 'possible', the issue is how 'probable' it is. Years ago the idea that the earth revolved around the sun was a supernatural concept, it ceased to become so when a means came about to test and measure it.
It is just as possible that what is considered supernatural now may become natural once the necessary technology (means to test and measure) is developed. Of course until that happens it is still super natural but just as with the orbit of earth, many began to believe it revolved around the sun before it was firmly established as fact.
Essentially what you seem to be saying is that the supernatural is merely the natural that we haven't yet discovered. So what exactly are we discussing again?
(September 25, 2012 at 9:55 pm)treshbond Wrote: That means they acted in faith based upon evidence. Much like one has faith that when they drive down a road they have never personally traveled, that it will hold the weight of the car and not collapse beneath them. Why? because they know there are systems in place to ensure consistent construction standards etc. Does that mean it is not an act of faith? I say it is faith, but it has a reasonable basis. My goal is to determine how reasonable it is to consider the Bible a reliable source of information about what could possibly be true. In other words, how probable it is.
You're conflating faith with reasonable expectation. It can be said to be an act of faith to drive on an unfamilar road, but not faith in the sense you are trying to define into existence. AronRa expressed it best when he spoke about the country ballad "Jesus, take the wheel". Essentially, using the analogy of an out of control car, the song advises that, when your life goes careering out of control, you should take your hands from off the steering wheel and let Jesus take control; you should just rely on faith that a) Jesus is real, b) he is able and willing to intervene in your life and c) he has your best interests at heart. Aron said - not altogether seriously - to take your hands off the wheel before the car goes out of control and see what happens.
(September 26, 2012 at 7:16 am)treshbond Wrote: So what is wrong with cherrypicking? I see it done with other historical texts all the time.
Caarefully selecting which bits of data will support your argument and rejecting or debasing the rest is a fallacious and dishonest debating tactic. You will be called out on it.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
