(September 27, 2012 at 3:49 pm)Minimalist Wrote:Quote:He went on to quote the 3,000 year history of Jews and used that same lame excuse of tradition and "we were here first"
And if an Apache knocked on my door and said he used to live here I'd laugh in his face and call the cops to lock the nut up. The Romans threw the Jews out of Palestine in 135 AD.
What happened is that the UN stole Palestine and gave it to the Jews. Probably in the hope of getting them out of Europe.
Did you even see the contradiction in this post?
Europeans stole the land from Native Americans and I agree I would not give it back. But now you say the UN stole the land from Palistine, how is that any different?
The deed is done and there is a shelf life on that kind of thing otherwise we should as Americans give the land back to Native Americans.
How does dwelling on the past and living in the past help anyone deal with the future?
Humans compete for resources, that is an evolutionary thing, not a label thing and we have AS A SPECIES done some pretty shitty things in our evolution to get those resources.
But playing victim way after the fact, does not make one special because there has NEVER been a period in our evolution where we didn't do bad things to our fellow humans.
If one is to value human suffering then it cannot be Muslim suffering or Jewish suffering, just like we should not forget what we did to Native Americans or blacks. But the lesson should be to humanity and not the claimed right of a group that suffered.
I value Martin Luther King and Malcom X, not because they were black or because one was Muslim or Christian. I value them because they display the human struggle that all of humanity can learn from.
But collectively as a species non of our suffering is special. Pain and trama and violence are an unfortunate part of evolution that our species has always been capable of feeling and or inflicting on others.
What I see going on IS tribal and religios which only serves both sides to treat the other as a sub species. Once you patronize someone with "peace through my club" the other side views you as seeing them as the outsider, no matter how much either side claims the want peace.
I think both sides do want peace, but are completely going about it the wrong way and the violence each inflicts on the other and then responds with "I am the victim" is perpetuated by the distraction of club labels.
Whereas if both sides would skip the fucking labels and insist on seperate SECULAR states void of religious pecking orders, I think peace could be accheaved quite easly or at least be sped up.
But currently I see no solution precisely because of both sides rooted in a mythological past claiming divine tradition gave them intitlement to a land which in reality(in terms of billions of years) no one really owns. We simply squat on a parcel of land and then we die and try to pass it off to our offspring, but we are still doing the same thing.
I think if enough Jews and Muslims ever, and some already may realize this, when that becomes a majority on both sides, then that is when peace will take hold. I just dont see it happening in the climates on either side right now.
Two separate secular states that value pluralism and protection of dissent I would love to see, but neither wants to take a secular attitude.
