Jews don't get a pass "just because"

[Brian37]

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And that is what we have in Palestine right now. The arabs will not rest until they have driven out the jews out of Jerusalem, while the jews will stop at nothing to re-claim their promised lands.
As I said, only war can settle things, and peace is impossible.

To the OP. It certainly does not matter if both sides were secular to the core-jews are an ethnic group of their own right, and their ethnic consciousness is in deep relation with their religious identity, while arabs, even though having different religious groups amongst themselves, are also quite nationalistic, and no one would like to see invaders in a place where they constitute a majority, yes?

Religion has very little to do with it.
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How can you say religion has very little to do with it when "the jews will stop at nothing to re-claim their promised lands". I thought the promised lands story was part of their religion.

That is the denial I hate about the politics of both sides. It is utter bullshit after I listented to their PM pontificate about the history of Jews and quote the names of OT characters and then have some lie and say it is not about religion.

Again, it is not an expectiation for any human on either side to leave. That is just impractical and wont happen. That would be like me quoting our secular law and expecing Christians to leave America.

But for any Jew or Muslim to say it is only about boarders and politics is utter fucking bullshit. I am under no illusions to expect religion to go away, just stop fucking lying about why you are "standing your ground".

It is a very pragmatic challenge as to why I say that. Because once you adimit your intent, it is very easy to see what Jefferson ment by his "wall" between church and state and why it is important to the civility of pluralism in any given governance.

It isn't a demand that tradition go away, just that a govenment cannot nor should, if it claims to value pluralism, play favorites or give special pleading to one religion over another.

It is a lie to me if any Muslim who supports Palistine says they wont set up a Muslim state. And it is a lie to say that a Jewish state will be neutral as far a governance. To whatever degree both would be setting up pecking orders.

I will only be for both sides setting up NEUTRAL secular states where freedom of religion and political and religious minorities are protected and have the equal opportunity at political office as the majority.

In the United States there is no quota system for government office. One still has to compete to convince others to vote for them. But there is no political or religious requirement to apply for the paper work to make the attempt to get votes.

I do not see either side long term looking for a neutral pluralistic government. Isreal is more westernized, but still has a theistic attitude like some Christians in America have about non Chrisitians in that we are welcome here but this is a "Christian Nation".

Pluralistic governments should not advocate religious theme parks as being the nation. It should simply be neutral on the issue and protect the rights of all.