Divine Inspiration

[Darkstar]

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Do you honestly think there is anything in the bible that God does not want in it?

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People have changed the bible over the years. If god wants all of the racism and sexism to be a part of the bible then we have a problem.

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'Differently' does not mean incorrectly. I know we are allowed to view things differently and worship differently because it is spelled out in every book of the New Testament. From the different takes of what was important in the gospels. to how 'differently' Paul was brought into the ministry to each one of the different churches each book was written to. If God demanded uniformity then he would have only needed one book with christianity as He did with the Jews in deuteronomy. As it is written the New testament is a 'testament' as to the nature of the freedom we have to live and worship Christ.

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That doesn't explain why people can use the bible to justify evil. Does god want evil? How do you explain this:

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Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

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That is justification for the crusades. I think it would be very important as to whether or not people followed the teaching in that passage.

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How is it perfect even when it is flawed simply because it is being used as a tool? In fact, a flawed bible is worse than no bible.

That's just it. (Read this next part carfully) The bible is not Flawed. Our understanding of it is. These are the failures that people identify in the bible and attribute to God. When in fact the flaws are from our own understandings.

An intentional issue with continuity is not a flaw. Especially when the intent is to have you continually question and undermine what you think you believe. God is infinite, so why should we ever feel comfortable in what we think we know of Him or what has even been written about Him? If one is honest with Himself he will come to the realization that the more he studies the less he actually 'knows' about God. It is only the fool who thinks he has it and christianity all figured out.

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(bolding mine)
So what you are sying is that god deliberately put errors in the bible, and because they were intentional they are not real errors? Then you go on to the whole 'mystery of god' thing where you say that no one can understand god so we must just be stupid for not knowing why he purposely put mistakes in the bible...

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The two accounts contradict each other. One is not simply a deeper form of the other. I have no idea how you came to the conclusion that 'traditional jewish storytelling' would permit obvious contradictions.

2 years of study focoused on Jewish texts.

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That doesn't really answer the question. It would be like saying I came to the conclusion that 10 x 10 = 100 because of math class.

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Well, god hasn't done his job the, has he? The only promises god gives us are of heaven and hell, which we can't test.

again only the fool believes he has it all figured out.
We have been given the promise of the Holy Spirit for all who would simply ask seek and knock as outlined in luke 11. This is where a literal peice of God comes and resides with in you. Giving you the 'proof' and direction you will personally need to establish a faith and maintain it.

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...? So...the bible is still full of holes, but you trust a bible passage to tell you that you will recieve 'proof' of the bible's validity from an undetectable entity? I don't suppose you have any evidence for this other than your personal credulity.

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If the bible contradicts itself, it is not infalliable, end of story.

Then maybe you could be so good as show me a place where you have personally found such a contradiction.

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Here, here, and here.

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You honestly believe that it is wrong to let your wife ask other people questions just because the bible says so?

Maybe read the story again and rephrase your question to reflect what i have shared.

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You would don't personally think it is wrong, but feel guilty for not thinking this because you are a slave to the bible (as you openly admitted in a pervious post).

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I bet you would say it was okay to stone unruly children to death if the bible said...wait,the bible does say that...

It was ok for the people and time in whom that command was given. who are you to say otherwise?

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I don't know, maybe someone with at least a single moral bone in my body. It may have been socially acceptable at the time, but that doesn't make it right. Likewise, the rule isn't objectively moral if it was only right for the time. Therefore, the bible fails at providing objective morality.

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I don't see how you can be on Paul's side but at the same time continue to act as if it's not a part of doctrine.

I see This is where you are truly confused. Understand, I have not tried to justify this sin. I accept it as sin and as a willful disobediance between me and my God.

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Then you are justifying it! You refuse to reject it, or anything else in the bible because you are a sheep, blindly following god's will, regardless of if it is right or wrong.

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Clearly "God's Righteousness" isn't what drives you nor is it the Holy Spirit.

Noope. Personal pride and my understanding of what it means to be faithful to what I have been given is what drives me.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't personal pride what drove Lucifer to rebel, according to the bible? I thought personal pride, or really anything that doesn't make you feel like a worthless and disgusting abomination of nature was frowned upon by the church.

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You have identified a man's opinion from the 1st century Roman Empire which is clearly sexist, doesn't fit into today's society and have decided to override "infallible scripture".

Again here is where you need to be corrected. I have not justified anything. my actions are a direct result of my own willingness to sin if the face of God and what i as a christian have been commanded to do. Meaning God's word stays intact and is as perfect as it was when first written. It is my understanding of God's word and how it relates to this time and this soceity is where the contradiction lies. I am the fault in the equasion, not the bible.

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If you truly believe that, then there is no more hope for you...

My advice to you is to take the stance of the moral relativist. That is, accept something as morally right if, and only if, the society accepts that as being morally right.

if I did that then I would also have to "fall to the reasoning" of my peers. I know you may agree with that, but I like to do my own thinking for myself.

(bolding mine) Sorry, I couldn't resist. I don't think any other response is appropriate at this point.(wait... I don't drink coffee)

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Therefore Paul's words can be said to be sexist but because that's the society he lived in, it is therefore morally right. The only problem with this view is two things:

a) It means his teachings can't be applied anymore (because our society isn't ok with sexism).
b) Hence, according to 'a' (surprise surprise) the Bible is fallible.

we've discussed this in another thread already. You are looking to the bible as a book of rules to follow to find righteousness. Which is why it is so important to you that this 'book of rules' match your current understanding of morality.

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But...it doesn't match our current understanding of morality.

The only reason the 'rules' are in the bible is to show you that you can not ever hope to be righteous by following a rule based theology.

So the bible is deliberately flawed...but why?

The rules are there to show you that you are a sinner and nothing else.

Oh, to destroy your sense of self-worth, something religions seem to love doing.

They are there to convict you of your sin. One you can accept your sin the bible points to the only way of salvation and that is through attonement for your sin.

More shaming.

so things like the bit you thought were inconsistancies in the bible remain just as damning then as they are now. The only difference is the attonement offered covers all sin. Again this is what seperates biblical christianity from all other religions. It is not rule based, which pretty much invalidates your whole arguement.

If there are no rules, then what were the ten commandments for?

I don't think any other moral ethics stance can justify how it's ok for Paul to say that.

Morality That's the whole issue isn't it? You think we are to be moral and that somehow that warrants eternal life. Ahh, no. This is why i say over and over morality or our "good deeds" are like dirty menstral rags (is the actual translation) to God. Our 'morality' truly, TRULY counts for nothing on it own merrit.

Translation: Do anything evil you want, just ask god for forgiveness later and accept Jesus. Who cares about morals!?!