Divine Inspiration

[Darkstar]

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If you have ever studied the bible you would know they haven't. Especially since we found the dead sea scrolls. I can post stats if you are interested.

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What about translation errors? How about this:http://atheistforums.org/thread-15003.ht...ht=lexicon

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If god wants all of the racism and sexism to be a part of the bible then we have a problem.

It would seem the problem is yours. Because your 'morality' has taken you so far from God's righteousness, does not mean God's standard is any less valid.

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Yeah, actually, it does. These aren't god's standards because god doesn't exist. These are the archaic moral values of the ancient people who wrote the bible.

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That doesn't explain why people can use the bible to justify evil. Does god want evil?

Two things Evil is not justified, but at the same time what you may see as evil doesn't mean evil is being committed. The bible defines evil as a malicious intention to be outside of the expressed will of God.

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In other words, evil is only that which opposes god, and good is only that which god permits. Too bad he isn't real and those values were recorded by morally backward people.

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How do you explain this:
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

That God gave the OT Jews who Deu 13 was written to a direct command to destroy all the things in a given town.

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(bolding added)
Nope, not a specific command, but a general and standing one.

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That is justification for the crusades. I think it would be very important as to whether or not people followed the teaching in that passage.

We can justify whatever we like with what ever passage we want that does not mean God endorses the act. Again God gave a very specific command to a very specific act of people living a very specific time frame. To use this command set to these people and apply it to your own agenda is not an act of God. We know this instance was a specific command for a specific people because God's commands varied from town to town region to region depending on how corrupt a given people were. We also know that it was forbidden to attack or war against a people without a direct word from God. God's words for a physical war have never been given to Christians. We are called to a spiritual war.

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Spiritual war=kill people of other religions
You know, god hasn't told anyone to do anything for 2000+ years, so without a specific command, we cannot interpret his past words to mean anything. Doesn't that mean the whole bible is invalid by your logic?

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So what you are sying is that god deliberately put errors in the bible, and because they were intentional they are not real errors?

No. I am saying what appears to be a mistake in the bible is your own flawed understanding of what the bible says.
God put it there so you would constantly be challenging what you think you know about Christianity about God..

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Finding contradictions does not mean I have a flawed understanding, it means the bible is flawed.

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Then you go on to the whole 'mystery of god' thing where you say that no one can understand god

ah, no. we can understand what has been revealed, but nothing more.

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You, just said that we can't really understand it/our understanding is flawed and now you say we can understand it?

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for not knowing why he purposely put mistakes in the bible...

Again the mistakes are not in the bible, but in your understanding of it. The reason you do not know this is because you do not ask seek or knock.

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Funny, because some people on this forum were christian for decades before deconverting and never got any sign. You talk of seeking, asking, and knocking, but this is only a metaphor; a metaphor that you have repeatedly failed to define. The seeking and asking can be inferred, but what is this metaphorical knocking? How long must one wait after doing these things beforew they can understand anything?

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That doesn't really answer the question. It would be like saying I came to the conclusion that 10 x 10 = 100 because of math class.

Then do a google search. what do you want from me? Do i have to predigest everything for you? I gave you a fact that is easily verfiable.. So verify it, accept it, or ignore it. BTW if you asked why 10x10=100 I would have told you the same. for I am not here to teach math, like I am not here to teach jewish tradition, especially when if you have access to this website you have access to google.

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So what you expect me to believe is that traditional Jewish storytellers told two versions of a story that deliberately contradicted each other?

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...? So...the bible is still full of holes, but you trust a bible passage to tell you that you will recieve 'proof' of the bible's validity from an undetectable entity? I don't suppose you have any evidence for this other than your personal credulity.

The evidence comes when you foolow the path God has commanded you to walk. Untill you do this you WILL remain in the dark. You do not have the capasity to understand otherwise.

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You clearly don't understand, or else you would have explained it, rather than dodging the question (again).

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Here, here, and here.

so these are your websites and are a direct result of YOUR own personal study? Because that is what I asked of you. To show me a contradiction you found to be true.

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You know what, Drich? Why don't you go and learn everything the human race has ever learned from scratch. Don't read history books, go to the places where these events happened, do some archeology, and then give me your findings. Or better: look in the bible to confirm these. I could have found contradictions myself, or I could have posted a link to someone who already did. Which is more time efficient, and which will find more contradictions? The websites.

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You would don't personally think it is wrong, but feel guilty for not thinking this because you are a slave to the bible (as you openly admitted in a pervious post).

I am a slave to God and the bible yes. I personally do not see this as wrong, no. I do not feel bad. As I have said I make no excuses. I know I am in sin and continue on anyway. For this I am at God's mercy to forgive me for not being able to resolve this conflict, and siding with my own understanding rather than defaulting with Him.

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Maybe there is no conflict. Maybe you didn't do anything wrong, and the church has you brainwashed. That much is abundantly obvious to everyone here by now, I'm sure (except for you).

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I don't know, maybe someone with at least a single moral bone in my body. It may have been socially acceptable at the time, but that doesn't make it right. Likewise, the rule isn't objectively moral if it was only right for the time. Therefore, the bible fails at providing objective morality.

The bible does not give all of the reason why God called for the complete destruction of these people. We do not know all of the personal accounts of what they did or what they would have done if allowed to live. Objective 'morality' requires all of the facts in order to render a proper judgement. You do not have all of the facts but still make the judgement under the pretext of 'objective morality.'

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You do not have any of the facts, but blindly take 'god's' word for it.

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Then you are justifying it! You refuse to reject it, or anything else in the bible because you are a sheep, blindly following god's will, regardless of if it is right or wrong.

Baaaaa (the sound a sheep makes)
Oh, the irony. I am told by God what right and wrong is and I do not question it, and you are told what right and wrong is by your peers/your soceity and you do not question it. I am a sheep, but so are you! Baaaa!

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Peers, as in plural. Not everyone agrees on what is right and wrong (allthough there are some basic points of agreement, such as murder, etc.). The golden rule is a good start for morality, likewise, it is good to determine if an action will hurt others/what will cause the greatest amount of happiness for the greatest number of people, etc. We are allowed to make moral choices, you are not.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't personal pride what drove Lucifer to rebel, according to the bible?

yep.

I thought personal pride, or really anything that doesn't make you feel like a worthless and disgusting abomination of nature was frowned upon by the church.

Pride is a sin but it's not the unforgivable sin. There is redemption for pride for all who seek it.

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So, by sinning, you are able to be confident in your understanding of the bible?

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If you truly believe that, then there is no more hope for you...

(in my best Adam Sandberg/Nick Cage impression) "That's high Praise!"

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But...it doesn't match our current understanding of morality.

God's standard hasn't Changed, but you report a change in your morality away from God. Where do you think the fault lies?

In whoever made up god with such bad morals.

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Oh, to destroy your sense of self-worth, something religions seem to love doing.

The word you are looking for is self righteousness. The Law is there to destroy your sense of Self Righteousness. Meaning the Law shows you that your 'morality' or sense of "righteousness" is not a valid way to measure yourself as worthy of eternal life.

More shaming.

The bible is identifying a problem, and then provides a solution.

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Problem: people have self-esteem and a sense of self-worth. If they consider themselves to be anything more than dirty little sinners, they won't blindly follow us, begging for redemtion from a punishment we made up.

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If there are no rules, then what were the ten commandments for?

For the Jews to live by. To show us we fail with our understanding of 'morality.'

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But...god made the ten commandments. That was his understanding of morality.

Translation: Do anything evil you want, just ask god for forgiveness later and accept Jesus. Who cares about morals!?!

Actually it says to love God with all of your being and then do whatever you want who cares about 'morality.'
;P