Divine Inspiration

[Darkstar]

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again 'translation' does not change the content of the orginal text does it. Your arguement supports my orginal assertion. In that the errors assoceiated with the bible are a matter of our personal understanding of it.

How about this:

Tea simply translated one word in a text to change the meaning while retaining the rest of the translation. Smoke and mirrors.

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Actually, it did change the meaning.

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Yeah, actually, it does. These aren't god's standards because god doesn't exist.

So you have said.. which seems to be predicated on your faith.

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0.00001% faith vs. 99.99999% lack of evidence
You have a lot more faith

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These are the archaic moral values of the ancient people who wrote the bible.

Actually they are not. That is why these 'values' have always been met with rebellion and opposition.

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Really? I'd like some examples, because it seems like the people in the bible were fine with it.

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In other words, evil is only that which opposes god, and good is only that which god permits. Too bad he isn't real and those values were recorded by morally backward people.

is this what you believe?

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From what you've given me, that is the only logical conclusion. You haven't denied it.

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Nope, not a specific command, but a general and standing one.

to whom?

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To everyone, of course. You said that the bible was a tool to be used by believers. This is part of that tool.

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Spiritual war=kill people of other religions

actually no. Spiritual war means to fight your sin nature. again we (Meaning Christians) are not called to physically harm anyone. If you believe otherwise then show me book Chapter and verse that directs any Christianity to harm another.

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Did you ignore the previous bible passage?

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You know, god hasn't told anyone to do anything for 2000+ years, so without a specific command, we cannot interpret his past words to mean anything. Doesn't that mean the whole bible is invalid by your logic?

How do you know what God has or has not said? You said that He does not exist. so doesn't that invalidate your question by your logic?[/quote

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Of course! That is my point! God has not issued any commands, and you said that people shouldn't do things in the name of god unless he specifically commands it, so that invalidates the whold bible, then.

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By My logic God has established a set of instructions in the bible, and has made promises to indewell all who ask, seek and knock as he has instructed. To which once God indwells a person said person receives direction from God directly. How do we know these are God's words? Because they conside with what has been written in the cannon of scripture.

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Your logic fails then. You still haven't told me what this metaphoricl knocking is, so if you refuse to define the terms then of course you can say that I'm not knocking properly when god doesn't answer.

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Finding contradictions does not mean I have a flawed understanding, it means the bible is flawed.

which is exactly why i ask you to provide your 'contradictions' So that we shall see where the flaws are.

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Why do you refuse to look at the websites I provided?

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Funny, because some people on this forum were christian for decades before deconverting and never got any sign. You talk of seeking, asking, and knocking, but this is only a metaphor; a metaphor that you have repeatedly failed to define.

Have you asked for a defination?

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Other people have, maybe not to you. I am asking for one now.

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The seeking and asking can be inferred, but what is this metaphorical knocking? How long must one wait after doing these things beforew they can understand anything?

We ask in prayer. Not petition but actual prayer. In Luke 11 where we are told we must knock we are also told how to pray. We seek in the bible, church, and in questions like this. We knock as the parable in luke 11 outlines. Meaning we repeat this process TILL we get what our Hearts have asked and sought after. (just like in the parable) Once you put a time frame on what or how you will ask and seek you wander from the perscribed path outlined in luke 11. Asking and seeking is less about the effort but the humlity it takes to wait and persue after God. One can go through the motions for 20 years and find nothing, or someone could start in an afternoon and have found God by the end of the day. It all depends on the heart doing the asking and seeking.

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Correction: It all depends on the [willingness to delude oneself] of the heart doing the asking and seeking. By the same method, a credulous person could eventually convince themself that the Flying Spaghetti Monster existed.

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So what you expect me to believe is that traditional Jewish storytellers told two versions of a story that deliberately contradicted each other?

What I am expecting you to do is do your own reasearch. Then you will find the model of story telling I have left for you. In that stories are not told in chroniclogical order. They want to know the high points of the story and then the details. Kinda like wanting to see the 'previews' of a movie before deciding to listen.

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Well, you won't even look at the sites I've provided and yet you expect me to do reserch? I'll take your word for it then. That still opens up two problems: 1. Why do the accounts contradict each other, and 2. Why does only the creatio have two accounts, and none of the other stories do? (Other than the gospels, but that is from different points of view, and they also contradict each other).

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You clearly don't understand, or else you would have explained it, rather than dodging the question (again).

Or perhaps you have asked the wrong question (again.) I answer only the questions you all ask. Once you are ready to know more you will ask for more (Just like with the bit on "ask seek and knock.") I did not explain it to you simply because you did not ask. To explain it before you were ready to hear it would have been a complete waist of time.

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...?

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You know what, Drich? Why don't you go and learn everything the human race has ever learned from scratch. Don't read history books, go to the places where these events happened, do some archeology, and then give me your findings. Or better: look in the bible to confirm these. I could have found contradictions myself, or I could have posted a link to someone who already did. Which is more time efficient, and which will find more contradictions? The websites.

Then I could just as easily post a link to the answers.. Or do you honestly think that the major 'contradiction websites' have gone unanswered. I am only putting in the effort into this conversation that you yourself are willing to expend. If you can not be bothered to simply take what seems to be a contradiction to you and follow up with a simple google search, then why should I be bothered to blindly answer 1000 contradictions that you have little to no interest in. I simply askedyou to provide one or two absolute contradiction you felt that their was no comming back from... Or are you saying that you have put total faith in someone elses work to see you through your final judgement? Do you not see the irony in that? You have faith in a muslim website to help you determine your eternity, but no faith in God?

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Ahhh...I think I see what you're getting at.
Why is 'thou shall not kill' a commandment when god repeatedly orders his followers to exterminate other groups? (and animal sacrifices)

This is the first 'contradiction' I could find: this page only talks about one particular contradiction. If you re-interpret something enough, almost any contradiction can be resolved.

However, even if one moves out of the realm of contradictions, there are still errors to be found. For example, we know that the world is not flat, and yet the bible says that it is, along with a number of other scientific errors that reflect the scientific knowledge and worldview of the people of the time. Earth form errors discussed here.

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Maybe there is no conflict. Maybe you didn't do anything wrong, and the church has you brainwashed. That much is abundantly obvious to everyone here by now, I'm sure (except for you).

The church has nothing to do with this. Most churches do not care who asks questions in a bible class. In fact the one I was teaching encouraged it. That is why I fell into conflict.

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I see. Well if there is some sort of conflict, maybe then you will genuinely question it, even once. The definition of god given to you says that god must always be right. If he appears to be wrong, then you must simply not understand his greatness. If you considered the possibility that he could be wrong (i.e. if he didn't actually exist) everything would make sense

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Peers, as in plural. Not everyone agrees on what is right and wrong (allthough there are some basic points of agreement, such as murder, etc.). The golden rule is a good start for morality, likewise, it is good to determine if an action will hurt others/what will cause the greatest amount of happiness for the greatest number of people, etc. We are allowed to make moral choices, you are not.

Baaaaa[/quote]

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There isn't a rulebook, there is a decison making process.

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So, by sinning, you are able to be confident in your understanding of the bible?

Yes I am. As Paul was in romans 7 verse 7 through the end of the chapterhttp://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+7&version=NIV

In short he says we are all sin all of the time even after we have been saved (as he was when he wrote Romans 7)

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More shaming

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In whoever made up god with such bad morals.

The fact that God has never lined up with our 'Morals' proves He is not of us.

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I don't think that these morals have never lined up with ours. Sure, they don't now, but they are 2000+ years old.

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But...god made the ten commandments. That was his understanding of morality.

That understanding is called Righteousness. Which was extended to include our thoughts and Heart felt desires in Mt 5. to further prove that 'self righteousness/morality' is not a valid standard in which to merrit eternal life.

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But the ten commandments are clearly incomplete, and they place extra emphasis on worshipping god. If morality is not a valid standard for earning eternal life, then what is? Accepting Jesus?

It reminds me of the saying "When I was a child, I prayed to god for a bike. But I quickly found out he didn't work that way, so I stole a bike and prayed for his forgiveness".