Divine Inspiration

[Darkstar]

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Which is why your 'morality' fails as a true standard. Because even in some cultures simply holding a grudge is an immoral act. In God's standard these sins have been likened to the worst sins one can commit. Since God is judgeing your eternal fate (and not your peers) then it is to His standard you will be judged and not the ones you favor.

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There is nothing that can be substituted for morality as a standard.

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What makes anything a crap standard is it's subjectablity to change. A Meter is a standard a gallon is a standard a Miniute, Hour, Mile or Kilometer is a standard. These "Measures" Are Not Subject to Change. "alot" is a crap measure of volume or weight, a "ways or a little while" is a crap way of measuring distance. Why? Because these 'measures' are subject to constant change, just like your understanding of Morality.

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You don't need to standardize morality as 'a lot' and 'a little'. You standardize it as immoral, moral, or questionable. God provides absolute moral standards and they fail miserably for that reason: they are not subject to change and therefore cannot be corrected.

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Maybe people are deviating from morality, has that not ever occured to you?

No Never!! Why? Because My 'morality' much like you own changes with what I do so I may justify my actions inorder to see myself as a Good Person. My Self Righteousness like your self Righteousness knows no bounds.

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God's self righteousness knows no bounds. All righteousness is god's self righteousness. If you think that you are incapable of differentiating between right and wrong, then it is your problem. I don't need god to tell me not to steal, or not to stone someone to death for picking up sticks on a Sunday...if it wasn't obvious: Numbers15:32-36

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While the Israelites were in the wilderness, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day. 33 Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly, 34 and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. 35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp.” 36 So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the Lord commanded Moses.

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However God's Righteousness grounds my efforts and I see all of my short commings for what they are. While under going this Conviction of my sin I see no otherway to justify myself before a holy and righteous God other than to seek attonement. It is only through attonement that I finally become worthy even in my sinful selfrighteousness. Or as you perfer "Morality."

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So having morals is sinful...we should just repent perpetually, rather than try to be good people because we will all eventually make at least one mistake in our lives.

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That was obvious sarcasm. If everyone thinks of themself as a terrible person...

Then they would seek redemption rather than try and justify their sins with self righteousness that demands a lowering of the bar.

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Or they would say "forget this! Let's do whatever we want!" Treat someone like a monster for long enough and they start to act like one. How exactly do you suppose that turning away from the jealous god's self-righteousness is lowering the bar?

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Think of The Scarlet Letter. Would you really want to live in a society like that?

Do you really think that if everyone is an admitted sinful person anyone could be in a position to judge another?

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Here's the problem: by 'sinful' you mean imperfect. There are varying degrees of 'sinfulness', and lumping murderers in with the same group as social workers is unfair. Of course, you are convinced that the entire human race is garbage, and even more of garbage to dare think otherwise, so why bother debating this point with you?

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Is that society really more moral than ours? (Rhetorical:No it is not)

Why? Because self righteousness in the name of Christ is no better than the self righteouness you believe you have obtained that absolves you from needing Christ. No matter who weilds self righteousness, it is always a crap standard.

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God wields self-righteousness exclusively

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Agreed, one should do what is right on principle, not just because god says so. If god orders something immoral, you need to have the courage to resist it. After all, how do we know that he doesn't deliberately do bad things to see who is brave enough to stand up for what is right?

How can you use a crap standard to judge a command of God immoral? How do we know that you have simply not "moved the goal post" to demonize a standard of God?

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I see now. You are so utterly incapable of questioning that you will always assume that god is just. How do you know god is not evil? You assume that he knows best. Even when he does morally reprehensible things, you move goalposts and say that we are morally reprehensible for questioning the ethics of stoning someone for picking up sticks on a Sunday. God is not just and he never was. He is the strongest, and therefore can impose his unjust will on humanity.

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Which one? There were several All of the ones in the past pointed to the dicipline of Israel. If you are referring to the last one I would think that it was a answer to a long standing prayer of the Jews. Now before you say something stupid or disrespectful about the Jews, ask yourself what has every Jew since 70AD till 1948 prayed for? What would every Devoute Jew gladly give their lives for that lived from that time till this, that was answered as a direct result of all who had suffered and died at the hands of evil men?
(Did He disappoint you with that answer? I am impressed. )

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...what are you talking about!?! Are you saying that the jews wanted the holocaust?
Then explain why so many of them desperately tried to avoid dying.

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Especially when Hitler evoked his name in doing it. Hitler's religious views, and religious quotes from him

Actually no. Himler was all abot the religions and not just Christianity. He would invoke any 'god' that might help him gain an edge. Which was the reason the the swastica, the "SS" runes and the Death's Head on all of their elite troops.

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Hitler was a roman catholic. The fact that he evoked the name of many gods wouldn't help your case. Also, what other god would he be doing the work of by killing jews other then the god of christianity, who says that all people of other religions must die?

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John (The owner of a very large company who I have only met in passing once or twice EVER):
" Hey, "Drich" Something in side of me is telling me I should support you and set you up with some money so you can do what God has lead you to do. How much do you need to get started?

Me: What? Me? started in what?

John: I'm not sure, but I know you to be a man of intergerity, and I know you have been given vision, and I want to support you in what it is you want to do. Know I am not giveing you this money it is a loan, one you must pay back in 2 years so don't ask what you can pay back.

Me: Let me talk to my wife and I will let you know.

I talked with my wife and prayed about it. It would take 50K to start a ministry I wanted to do, and 30K to start a refrigeration business. 3 days later We asked for 50K on the 2nd or 3rd time I ever met this man and He wrote a check for 25K, I cashed it, and went into business. Paid back the loan inside a year and have given everything we can back to God minus a hand ful of indulgences and living expences. As a result my buisness has doubled every year since we started (Even in this down economy.) For 5 years and then took on a Brand name refrigeration system, and 3 years after that I have been 'promoted' with in the company as one of 3 engineers who have completely changed My industry in a very big way. (which is the reason for my recent business trips.) These new refrigeration systems are catching national attention as they are the only truly 'green' systems in this industry. (which is the Power ball lottery ticket I was talking about) All to someone who should not have graduated High school let alone be in the position I am currently in.

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It sounds like he knew of your 'vision', which would make it a self-fulfilling prophecy. Even if not, I don't know how this proves god. He didn't even say 'god told me to give you this money'.

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If the guy gave you lottery numbers and those won, that would be one thing. However, if you have acquired wealth through other methods, then I don't know if that proves anything.

For you, my expereinces should mean absolutly nothing. What i have experienced is MY 'Proof' That sustains MY Faith. The Only reason I have shared my story with you is because the promise I cashed in on is also avaiable to you. All you need is the faith of a mustard seed to start the process.

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I am wondering two things now:
1. If you admit it will never have meaning to me, then why use it in a debate? (Now, in this case I kind of prompted you to, so it's different).
2. If that happened to me, it wouldn't prove anything. Why does god only give individual proof? Again: Why does god value belief over worship and obedience. I won't obey something I don't believe exists, and there are atheists who wish god were real. Why won't he reveal himself? It is not our duty to play hide and seek with him, as it is a wild goose chase with no time limit if he doesn't exist, and yet could still take decades if he does. If we only have one life, I won't waste it searching for something that I don't believe exists.

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Well, that leaves us with two options. Either you really are lying and just admitted you made it ambiguous to be more believable (not an accusation, just an observation of a possibility) or you misremembered. Again, why does god value belief without proof over worship? He has no reason not to give proof of his existence.

God has given you this life to make your own choice. If you choose God He will help eastablish a Faith in you and help you sustain it. If you do not choose God then you will be given enough doubt in everything you see and hear to perserve your choice in eternity. If God has seen fit to give this to you then who am I to try and convince you of anything? This is not my Job. I am only to answer the questions that I can. I have done so and that means the rest of the responsiablity of what you have learned is between you and God.

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You and god are both making unreasonable demands. You say we won't find evidence for him until after we have already convinced ourselves of him. Then we can let confirmation bias and credulity run rampant to our hearts content and find all of the personal 'proof' we need, while never finding any actual evidence.

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Missionaries go to Africa...so does the peace corps, and the peace corps doesn't say god told them to. (I don't even know if many missionaries say that) The fact is, the problem is still there. Jesus fed the hungry, but god is relatively apathetic about the Africans.

It seems you are apathetic about the Africans. As You are the one who see a Needs there and does little besides blame God for His appearent apathy.. Even after He has charged us with the complete care of this world and everyone/thing in it.

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I don't think you understand the point I'm making. What I'm saying is this:
1. The Peace Corps is a secular organization. Religion does not have a monopoly on helping Africa. In fact, I'd wager that their contibutions are smaller when compared with secular government aid.
2. If god gave us charge of the world and is letting the Africans starve, then why is he helping you, personally? I also don't know how you came to the conclusion that I don't care about starving Africans. Religion just isn't saving them.

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No as in, yes it isn't a cotradiciton, or no as in he didn't order genocide? Genocide in the bible If you don't believe the site, then look up those passages referenced in an actual bible.

No as in I have studied the bible and do not see anything in the bible that would say God is not allowed to command that an entire race of people be killed.

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Exactly my point. He makes "thou shall not kill" a commandment, while making breaking any of the top four commandments a killing offense. Remember the stick gaterer from earlier in the post?


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And I am supposed to assume that he had a good reason for going against his own will?

Where did He go against His own will?
It seems you assume too much about God.

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It seems you assume nothing other than 'he had his reasons'...which is assuming everything. If god is unknowable, then why do you constantly defend him? You don't know much about him, other than what can be inferred from his actions. Logically, one can infer that god is a monster, from his actions. You have the presupposed idea that he is always just, nullifying any argument against him.

Mark 4:10-12

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When he was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables. 11 He told them, “The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables 12 so that,


“‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving,
and ever hearing but never understanding;
otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!’”

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Proof that if god exists he wants us to burn.