RE: Community help for Non-Cognitive?
October 27, 2012 at 11:52 am
(This post was last modified: October 27, 2012 at 11:58 am by TROC.)
Thanks very much mralstoner;
Particularly the author advice! Your atheism and mine might have similar roots and dispositions (proof/disproof/un-provable/improbable?... heck I just don’t believe).
I guess I've been focused on the whole non-cog in the interpersonal aspect; allow me to illustrate by contrast:
I've learned that in dealing with the majority population that I should declare myself as an atheist out of courtesy. If a Christian says "would you like some Jesus?" I say (calmly, politely yet confidently and firmly) "Thank you... no... I'm an atheist". When I was very young I thought that if I should say I'm agnostic I would be able to avoid silly arguments but found that though I am (like any healthy person) logically/rationally agnostic, and a humanist; If I should describe myself as such to a Christian - particularly an evangelist - they are left with the mistaken impression that I'm undecided or might benefit from some Jesus. This results in an ineffective conversation as they try to sell me a product I've no interest in. I travel and work in rural/evangelical areas so I had to learn to avoid this type of thing.
When I've done it the proper (and candid) way by accurately but politely declaring my atheism; 80% of the time they may look surprised but end up saying "oh..." and we go about our business. 20% of the time they are actually inquisitive (I keep in mind we atheists represent <2% of the population and something of a 'mythical beast' to most people) and they end up asking me lots of questions - not interrogating just inquisitive. These conversations are pleasant for me, I enjoy them. << 1% of the time I'll bump into a whacky unpleasant person who will rile about Jesus (actually only 2 in 40 years and the first was a young person who I think had some emotional issues that neither I nor Jesus could help with so I have difficulty 'counting' it, and another who was much older and dealing with clear mortality concerns so I have a hard time counting that one either).
Bottom Line: as a result of thinking and practice I have built up a good, honest, highly effective communication strategy for dealing the majority population. Not so with my own.
You mention the 'internet' community, but I can confirm in experience over the last year that it happens on the ground in groups and conferences also. Describing myself as an atheist among atheists is something of an invitation to have a harumph about how dumb Christians are, or have yet another debate about why pascal's wager is a bad idea... Dawkins is and excellent example: Why did we just spend two chapters in an adventure of butchering the disciplines of probability and statistics make an emotional decision in the end? I find that kind of behavior detestable.
In the end I may need to describe myself as an atheist among Christians and a humanist/agnostic among atheists, but it seems a bit sub-optimal for me and I'm not entirely comfortable with it yet.
I've been looking for somewhere to hang out that is more cognitively/emotively focused (both forum and in person), haven't found it yet. I just started being 'active' in the last year though so I came here to start asking around. mralstoner's book list is a good start both for my reading but forums where discuss dawkins=false, discuss Jacoby=true is also a good start.
If I bump into something I'll report back!
Particularly the author advice! Your atheism and mine might have similar roots and dispositions (proof/disproof/un-provable/improbable?... heck I just don’t believe).
I guess I've been focused on the whole non-cog in the interpersonal aspect; allow me to illustrate by contrast:
I've learned that in dealing with the majority population that I should declare myself as an atheist out of courtesy. If a Christian says "would you like some Jesus?" I say (calmly, politely yet confidently and firmly) "Thank you... no... I'm an atheist". When I was very young I thought that if I should say I'm agnostic I would be able to avoid silly arguments but found that though I am (like any healthy person) logically/rationally agnostic, and a humanist; If I should describe myself as such to a Christian - particularly an evangelist - they are left with the mistaken impression that I'm undecided or might benefit from some Jesus. This results in an ineffective conversation as they try to sell me a product I've no interest in. I travel and work in rural/evangelical areas so I had to learn to avoid this type of thing.
When I've done it the proper (and candid) way by accurately but politely declaring my atheism; 80% of the time they may look surprised but end up saying "oh..." and we go about our business. 20% of the time they are actually inquisitive (I keep in mind we atheists represent <2% of the population and something of a 'mythical beast' to most people) and they end up asking me lots of questions - not interrogating just inquisitive. These conversations are pleasant for me, I enjoy them. << 1% of the time I'll bump into a whacky unpleasant person who will rile about Jesus (actually only 2 in 40 years and the first was a young person who I think had some emotional issues that neither I nor Jesus could help with so I have difficulty 'counting' it, and another who was much older and dealing with clear mortality concerns so I have a hard time counting that one either).
Bottom Line: as a result of thinking and practice I have built up a good, honest, highly effective communication strategy for dealing the majority population. Not so with my own.
You mention the 'internet' community, but I can confirm in experience over the last year that it happens on the ground in groups and conferences also. Describing myself as an atheist among atheists is something of an invitation to have a harumph about how dumb Christians are, or have yet another debate about why pascal's wager is a bad idea... Dawkins is and excellent example: Why did we just spend two chapters in an adventure of butchering the disciplines of probability and statistics make an emotional decision in the end? I find that kind of behavior detestable.
In the end I may need to describe myself as an atheist among Christians and a humanist/agnostic among atheists, but it seems a bit sub-optimal for me and I'm not entirely comfortable with it yet.
(October 27, 2012 at 8:58 am)whateverist Wrote: So do you just not hang out here much? Is there another forum you frequent that is more balanced cognitively/emotively? Maybe I should check it out.
I've been looking for somewhere to hang out that is more cognitively/emotively focused (both forum and in person), haven't found it yet. I just started being 'active' in the last year though so I came here to start asking around. mralstoner's book list is a good start both for my reading but forums where discuss dawkins=false, discuss Jacoby=true is also a good start.
If I bump into something I'll report back!
