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Darkstar · (This post was last modified: November 1, 2012 at 3:51 pm by Darkstar.)

There were some problems and I somehow posted this accidentally, but it should be fixed now.

(November 1, 2012 at 3:22 am)Godschild Wrote:

I read the entire statement you posted, and I've seen independent reporting on the wolves in the area. The report said the ground no longer presents a real threat, yet these scientist that studied the wolves were not allowed to stay very long, this was to keep them safe. They had to be careful not to kick up dust as it could cause contamination. They took their own water in to drink, and Russians were with them all the time. They were not allowed to go near the reactor site, though I do not think they were very tempted to. None have been allowed near the reactor site, so nobody knows exactly how deep the core burned into the earth. This place glowed and smoked as if hit by a large falling object, you must remember John had no idea what a star's size was, however I'm sure he was familiar with meteors 'falling stars'. John described what he thought he was seeing. Yes the contamination is less on the surface of the ground, rain has carried the material underground, and I know this, the contamination goes with it and the rain water will and does find it's way to underground water sources. If the water did not make it to underground water eventually the ground would become saturated and a swamp would form. People rarely eat the deer from the area and the ones who do risk their health.
Am I saying a prophecy or part of a prophecy has come about, maybe, it does fit every well with the sounding of the third trumpet, don't you think. If you will go back and read all you presented and pay attention to the numbers for the people killed I think you will see it's many. I will say this, if Chernobyl is the completion of the third trumpet, one thing you can bet, times short, very short.
As you said Chernobyl means bitter, scripture says the waters were made bitter, the description of the contaminated waters, BITTER.

Actually, I never said that Chernobyl means bitter. Wormwood was the name of a bitter substance, as indicated by the footnote on bible gateway.

Quote:10 The third angel sounded his trumpet, and a great star, blazing like a torch, fell from the sky on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water— 11 the name of the star is Wormwood.[a] A third of the waters turned bitter, and many people died from the waters that had become bitter.

So what you are telling me is that John only thought a blazing star fell from the sky, and it was actually a nuclear meltdown originating on the ground? Another good question would be why was it in Russian? Why not Hebrew, or at least Greek? Wormwood was the name of a bitter substance, as indicated by the footnote; why would we assume it actually referred to a Russian word? Likewise, what of the first two trumpets? They would be impossible to miss, detailing how a third of the earth burned and a third of the seas turned to blood. If you really think this is a prophecy, then I don't think there is any point in trying to reason with you. Time is on my side: when the last person alive during Chernobyl dies, you will be proven wrong. (On a side note, your inability to provide sources, while not in itself invalidating your claims, certainly doesn't help them.)

I finally got around to reading the book of Joshua, along with the first chapeter of Judges.

I will give a summary of the pertinant parts and how they relate to the iron chariots incident. (Any bolding present in passages has been added by me for emphasis.) It is very long...

First, in the opening paragraph of Joshua, god promises to give Joshua all the land he sets foot on.

However, he also tells Joshua that he must be careful to obey him.

Then, Joshua relays god's message to the Israelites here:

This contains two seperate promises: exaltation and absolute conquest. The first is fulfilled here:

As for the second, it is evidenced throughout the book. The Israelites slaughter several populations with god's aid. Some of these killing happen under unusual circumstances, such as when god asks them to march around Jericho for a whole week for no apparent reason, but Jericho does fall (both literally and figuratively). Another odd happenstance is when god stops the sun and moon:

The adverse effects this would have on earth are ignored, but one could simply say that god, being omnipotent, had already taken them into account and conuteracted them. This is further proof of the great lengths that god would go to to ensure victory for his side: they could not be defeated.

Once Joshua had finished massacring the entire enemy population

he divided it up between the tribes.

It shouild be noted that god himself ordered this division.

Now, here is where it starts to get tricky. These lands were given to the tribes, but said tribes were not always able to drive the natives off of their land.

Now, wait one moment. It says that the people "live there with the people of Judah". Therefore, the people of Judah are living with them as well. This could be taken to mean that the people of Judah are in control, but simply didn't drive out the Jesubites. The next two passages more explicitly show this, in that the Israelites enslaved the locals. (Highly hypocrital and ironic, considering they were enslaved themselves not forty years before.) Ethics aside, the wording of these passages suggests that the Israelites did indeed hold control of these lands, fulfilling god's word.

There was at least one tribe, however, that did not get its fair share.

In this passage we see reference to the infamous iron chariots. Joshua has promised them that they can claim the rest of the land that has already been promised to them. Keep in mind that god originally bestowed this land onto Joshua.

Joshua later tells the Israelites to claim the land that god has already promised them.

Here, Joshua further reiterates the fact that there is yet land within their promised boundaries to claim:

Now, we get to the iron chariots incident. After Joshua dies:

Here, god has given Judah the duty of claiming the aforementioned lands in his name. And he does:

Judges 14 When Judah attacked, the Lord gave the Canaanites and Perizzites into their hands, and they struck down ten thousand men at Bezek. 5 It was there that they found Adoni-Bezek and fought against him, putting to rout the Canaanites and Perizzites. 6 Adoni-Bezek fled, but they chased him and caught him, and cut off his thumbs and big toes.
7 Then Adoni-Bezek said, “Seventy kings with their thumbs and big toes cut off have picked up scraps under my table. Now God has paid me back for what I did to them.” They brought him to Jerusalem, and he died there.
8 The men of Judah attacked Jerusalem also and took it. They put the city to the sword and set it on fire.
9 After that, Judah went down to fight against the Canaanites living in the hill country, the Negev and the western foothills. 10 They advanced against the Canaanites living in Hebron (formerly called Kiriath Arba) and defeated Sheshai, Ahiman and Talmai. 11 From there they advanced against the people living in Debir (formerly called Kiriath Sepher).
12 And Caleb said, “I will give my daughter Aksah in marriage to the man who attacks and captures Kiriath Sepher.” 13 Othniel son of Kenaz, Caleb’s younger brother, took it; so Caleb gave his daughter Aksah to him in marriage.
14 One day when she came to Othniel, she urged him[a] to ask her father for a field. When she got off her donkey, Caleb asked her, “What can I do for you?”
15 She replied, “Do me a special favor. Since you have given me land in the Negev, give me also springs of water.” So Caleb gave her the upper and lower springs.
16 The descendants of Moses’ father-in-law, the Kenite, went up from the City of Palms with the people of Judah to live among the inhabitants of the Desert of Judah in the Negev near Arad.
17 Then the men of Judah went with the Simeonites their fellow Israelites and attacked the Canaanites living in Zephath, and they totally destroyed[c] the city. Therefore it was called Hormah.[d] 18 Judah also took[e] Gaza, Ashkelon and Ekron—each city with its territory.

However, despite this, the chariots of iron are too much for god:

Quote:Judges 1:19 The Lord was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had chariots fitted with iron.

And so...things fall apart. It appears that there is an error here; either god was less than omnipotent that day, or there is a mistake in the bible, and hence it is falliable.

However, it wouldn't be a good idea for me to end there. I will address the most likely rebuttals.

First: God was angry at Judah/Judah wasn't pious enough.
Now, there is evidence that if this were true, then Judah would certainly have failed:

God's character aside, this is pretty solid. However, god was not angry at Judah. God was angered once in the book of Joshua:

However, this was resolved when Achan was executed:

The other time that the Israelites might have angered god was:

However, this was explained, and found not to be an offense to god.

If god had been angry with Judah, he would not have let him conquer so many lands before failing to defeat the Cannanites with iron chariots.

I know that someone mentioned a treaty at some point, and I would like to point out that said treaty was with the Gibeonites.

So there was no treaty either. The passage gives the reason "because they had chariots fitted with iron". The reason for Judah's failure is right in the passage. So, knowing that god had promised the land to Judah, that he had said that he would deliver the land to them, that he was not angry with Judaj, and that Judah had not treaty with those people, what option is left? Distorting the meaning of the passage, of course.

The three examples given above of lands where the natives were not driven out had disclaimers showing how those people were living alongside the Israelites, but the passage about the iron chariots says no such thing. Thus, it is only reasonable to conclude that what is written is what is meant. God could not defeat iron chariots in the bible, and god is omnipotent, therefore the bible is falliable.

TL;DR vesrion: the accounts in Joshua clearly indicate that god had promised that land to the Israelites, and that he ws not angry with them. Yet, Judah still couldn't win, so there is a biblical error regarding god's omnipotence.

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