(November 2, 2012 at 6:51 am)Godschild Wrote: @ Darkstar, thank you for reading the scriptures, this makes it easier to have a discussion. I did notice that you said you read the first chapter of Judges, I believe I asked if you would read the first four chapters. I also noticed you had no comment on Judges, the reason for reading Judges is this, God being omniscient knew that the Israelites would not trust Him in all things and disobey Him. So, in Judges we are told that some of the peoples of the land were spared to be a punishment to Israel for their disobedience.
This is why the Judah could not defeat the iron clad chariots, not because God could not do it, because He would not do it. I know it says God was with Judah, this necessarily does not mean He would give them complete success after they disobeyed Him, however He did not allow them to be defeated and did give over all the land and peoples to them.
Hmm, yes, shortly after posting I read chapter two of Judges and figured you would use it against me. However, the events in Judges two should not apply here.
Judges 2:6-15
Disobedience and Defeat 6 After Joshua had dismissed the Israelites, they went to take possession of the land, each to their own inheritance. 7 The people served the Lord throughout the lifetime of Joshua and of the elders who outlived him and who had seen all the great things the Lord had done for Israel.
8 Joshua son of Nun, the servant of the Lord, died at the age of a hundred and ten. 9 And they buried him in the land of his inheritance, at Timnath Heres in the hill country of Ephraim, north of Mount Gaash.
10 After that whole generation had been gathered to their ancestors, another generation grew up who knew neither the Lord nor what he had done for Israel. 11 Then the Israelites did evil in the eyes of the Lord and served the Baals. 12 They forsook the Lord, the God of their ancestors, who had brought them out of Egypt. They followed and worshiped various gods of the peoples around them. They aroused the Lord’s anger 13 because they forsook him and served Baal and the Ashtoreths. 14 In his anger against Israel the Lord gave them into the hands of raiders who plundered them. He sold them into the hands of their enemies all around, whom they were no longer able to resist. 15 Whenever Israel went out to fight, the hand of the Lord was against them to defeat them, just as he had sworn to them. They were in great distress.
(bolding added)
As is clear in the bolded portion, the disobedience to god occured after Joshua's entire generation, which would have included Judah, had "gone to their ancestors (died). Therefore god would have had to be punidhing Judah preemptively for things that would not even occur during his lifetime in order for yours to be a valid conclusion. You are correct that god punished the Israelites for their transgressions, but only after Judah was already dead.
(November 2, 2012 at 6:51 am)Godschild Wrote: Also the people who were defeated were not made slaves in the sense we know of slavery.
Indentured servant
It was more like indentured servitude which is...slavery with a time limit. You could still legally beat indentured servants to death. God even specifically made provisions to punish people if their slaves died from a beating within 24 hours. Jesus also made a comment about slave beating, saying that slaves who didn't know what they did wrong should not be beaten as harshly (but can still be beaten) as those who did. It was still quite brutal.
(November 2, 2012 at 6:51 am)Godschild Wrote: I'm not trying to tell you that Chernobyl is the completion of the third trumpet, what I was trying to say was that God works through man to complete His will.Okay, then. But, if it is not the third trumpet, then what is it? In the bible it was the third trumpet, so if you are attributing it to god, then why are you not using the specific biblical account about it, even though you are borrowing the name and description from said account? (and why Russian?)
John Adams Wrote:The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.