In the Beginning Man Was Stupid

[Drich]

That doesn't offer up an explanation, not that it matters as this is not a very big point, but still you've explained nothing. Why would the delusional primitive, oops I mean author of Genesis, leave out the fact that it was Lucifer. That would seem like a pretty important point to me. How do we even know it was indeed Lucifer at this point?

Lucifer was not identified by Moses (who wrote the Pentateuch) Lucifer was not identified by name till Isaiah 14. How do we know it was him? Ultimatly Lucifer is known by many other names in the bible, but in the end is always identified by character.
http://www.markbeast.com/satan/names-of-satan.htm

You use the apologists "point of view" every single day around here. One could easily argue that you are far more guilty of this offense than anyone here. The apologists' entire debate is based on context and point of view. Another religious hypocrite. Nothing new here.

So? Isn't the person argueing the appologist guilty of the same thing? For aren't you argueing that you POV based on _________, is indeed the correct reading?

The difference? Your POV like lucifer's POV serves to seperate people from God. The appologist is simply trying to relay the orginal intent of the message according to the text in which it was written.

In other words ... they DIDN'T DIE.
Greasy sophistry from a guy who just got done bashing "point of view." **insert MASSIVE eyeroll here**

A half truth is still a lie. Lucifer offered a half truth. Just like Obi wan lied to Luke. It was a 1/2 truth he told him. The devil told eve that she would not die. Eve's understanding of Die was that of what God communicated to Her because He told her specifically what would happen if she at of the fruit. lucifer pretended to speak of the same authority and scape goated out on a technicality. This form of deception is indeed coonsidered a lie.

oh and a bonus... you didn't even address the knowledge of good and evil and the glaring fact that the only thing they learned was the fact that they were naked. Which of course is bull shit, since god clearly considered Eve to be his wife and her nudity would NOT have been a sin whatsoever. Add that to the fact that there was supposedly no one else in the entirety of Mesopotamia to see the MARRIED couple walking around in the natural bodies that GOD gave them.

the understanding of Nakedness repersents the loss of innocents. they are aware of things that they were not aware of before. Don't read too much into it.

This passage of scripture is far more likely a testament to the long enduring sexual insecurity of middle eastern men who, even way back when the Bible was written, wanted to express how naughty and sinful naked people are, but STILL couldn't come up with a legitimate way to put it down on paper so it would make any fucking sense.

Sterotype much? Ever Heard of Sodom or Gomorrah? Do you know why God destroyed those two cities? If Middle eastern men were so sex shy then how do you suppose these two place became so corrupt God said I have to destroy these two cities?

Adam and Eve's big lesson from eating the fruit had nothing to do with murder, theft and rape. Nope, the only thing they found out was that they their god wanted them to cover up their genitals. No wonder Cain eventually killed Able ... they didn't learn jack shit.

You are confusing the Law with Sin. Sin is anything not in the Expressed will of God.(It is not limited to your understanding of the Law of moses) At the time the only thing God told them not to do was eat of the tree of Knoweledge. Eating of this tree made them aware of a great many thing they did not understand.

Please give me your apologists POINT of VIEW on this one. I'm sure it will be free of your usual sophistry.

WHAT?! His "little buddy" did come clean ... immediately ... and surprise surprise, your asshole wizard still tossed him out of the garden and the rest of humanity into eventual eternal torment. Hey thanks for the "opportunity" mr wizard!

WHAT WHAT?!?!? No he did not! Read the Story again. Adam did not own up to his actions at All! He blamed Eve for what he did.
Gen 3:11 And He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you that you should not eat?”

12 Then the man said, “The woman whom You gave to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I ate.”

Correction He blames God then blames the woman. "The Woman YOU Gave Me of the tree, and I ate..."

Adam like that 10 yearold caught with his hand in the cookie jar, blames everyone else and trys everything he can to pass on the responsiablity of eating the forbidden fruit.

Apologists' POINT OF VIEW defense ... AGAIN. I'm going to go ahead and call these out as APOV from now on. It'll save time, but what I want you to remember, is that you have no basis for this defense, it is merely your way of justifying piss-poor writing and contradiction after contradiction.

Next time just ask for BCV (Book Chapter and Verse) Isa 14 and Ezk 28 Here is a commentary dismissing the goto atheist arguement on these two passages. (One that I am prepared to discuss at length, so at least read this before you come at me with the same old song and dance.)
http://www.goodseed.com/learning/article...zekiel-28/

He went from having these powers to having nothing.

No he didn't. He still has great power.

compared to what/whom? Lucifer is a servant, always was and will be. Does He currently enjoy a greater station than any of us , yes. Is the station he serves in greater than when he served at the right hand of God? No. It is from the height of his glory to where he is now is what God has reduced him to.

In Ephesians, Satan is called the ruler of the kingdom of the air. John even tells us that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

I had a service manager who rans or controled my whole shop. He use to own his own business, and before he came to work for me he was incharge of 100 people. At our height we had 10. Now from any one of those 10 people that man was a king, but I am sure for him he had fallen a long way from the heights he once enjoyed.

That doesn't sound like a being who is going to be slithering around on his belly every day.

Because you live on the ground. You are beneath satan so from where you stand he is king. But from the hieghts of Heaven and God's right hand he is slithering on the ground.

You can't change whats written Drich. It clearly says word for word that he would be cursed to slither on his belly forever. Nope. Another glaring contradiction.

I didn't change a thing. I am simply making you aware that your POV is not the only one.

A filthy apologists twist of words. You're trying to change the argument. We are not debating who has more power in your Bible. Clearly god has the alleged "winning hand." The debate here is only the curse that god put on Lucifer that has clearly NEVER been enforced and I don't know any christian besides yourself who would claim that satan can only be found as a serpent slithering in the sand. Go ahead ... please do give us all your APOV defense.

Your wish has been granted.

This answer doesn't make sense to me. Explain yourself. I see a god that at least claimed to be angry about them discovering the knowledge of good and evil. Mind you, they didn't TURN EVIL, they merely gained KNOWLEDGE OF good and evil. So explain what you mean when someone has to be responsible and/or atone for KNOWLEDGE?

The knoweledge of Good and evil makes them responsiable for the times they choose sin rather than being in the expressed will of God... Do I really need to explain the whole Jesus died for our sins bit or do you get it now?

We've gone round and round on this stupidity before so I will digress with this final thought.

Either learn to spell or learn to use a fucking spell check. It's like trying to read a god damn grade schooler's book report - and a lazy one at that!

hock: