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(November 21, 2012 at 4:53 am)Daniel Wrote: A pretty weak straw man argument...
Really? I've heard all of those arguments on this forum a number of times.
Daniel Wrote:No, Paul said that and his scribe wrote it down, Jesus didn't say what you just quoted.
After searching the chapter, I have discovered that you are correct. Paul begins his speech with this:
Ephesians 3:1-6
For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles—
2 Surely you have heard about the administration of God’s grace that was given to me for you, 3 that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly. 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.
He later says
Ephesians 4:17-24
So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking. 18 They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. 19 Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, and they are full of greed.
20 That, however, is not the way of life you learned 21 when you heard about Christ and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus. 22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23 to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24 and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.
as a lead in to the decrees he made, including the one about slavery.
Apparently what he said in the chapter was revealed to him by god.
Daniel Wrote:Picking and choosing the parts of the Bible when God is angry is not going to help your argument. Consider John 14:6-11 (Jesus did say this one FYI):
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him.”
Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works. Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves.
(John 14:6-11)
If the character of God is as immoral as you claim, then you would be able to prove it by showing everyone that the character of Jesus is immoral. But if, on the other hand, you find that the character of Jesus is moral then it can only mean that the character of God is moral. I look forward to seeing you address this specifically.
I have pointed out that Jesus's and Yahweh's conflicting moralities suggest that they aren't really the same person. You assume that they must be. When god is in a good mood, he massacres people he doesn't like. When god is angry, he massacres...people who annoy him. Jesus preaches forgiveness and non-violence, whereas Yahweh leads brutal military campaigns and commands his followers to show no mercy. How do you reconcile this? Also
John 8:1-11 but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.
2 At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”
11 “No one, sir,” she said.
“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”
this passage is unusual. It isn't unusual for Jesus's merciful character, but isn't Jesus explicitly contradicting Yahweh here?