Reasons for God

[ecolox]

How is it selfish to give with no guarantee of being repaid?

That you do not expect physical repayment is good. That you do not follow the eye-for-an-eye philosophy of the old testament is also good.

That you give only because you expect to be lavished in an afterlife...? You expect eternal happiness in heaven, do you not? And by following "Christ's Path" you will attain such. The question becomes this: are you giving to follow Christ into heaven...? Or are you giving out of goodness?

Lavished in an afterlife, no - earn my keep, yes. What is wrong with my thinking, through faith - with no evidential guarantee, that I can earn good by being good. It wouldn't be fair for me to give, give, give and never receive anything for my work. I expect no repayment on earth, and I do not publicize specifically what it is that I do - in hopes of receiving earthly praise or rewards. God says that I will be repaid, and I think that is fair. Through faith I will continue to give.

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1. I never said...

None of these avenues that I've tried make sense, you're right.

I can care about people, I can be unselfish, without God. So where's your evidence that you can only be moral with God?

You bring up a good point, so I have abandoned all the points I was pushing. Now I think it makes more sense to say that empathy is a good basis for believing in God.

You conceded that being moral doesn't make sense (you can't prove that murder is wrong). You do it because "you care". God is a possible explanation of our existence, and because I care I choose Him. God will treat everyone fairly. Those that don't care don't have to, but they will not be joined with those that do - that's hell, I think.

I find the world inspiring to live in. So where is your evidence that there can be no meaning without God?

You enjoy driving down a dead end road where u-turns are illegal?

Being a good person and living a good life in general is beneficial to mankind...whether you're a believer or non-believer in God.

Yes, but I don't believe that's really possible without faith. An ebb and flow is possible - giving and receiving, but I believe faith is the only way to bring on a tidal wave of good.

Me too. I can care without God, believing in him doesn't give you special powers of kindness. If it did, then how come non-religious people can give a shit?

Because the non-religious receive repayment for the good they do, because they have plenty of support from people around them. I have real trouble believing they could go the extra mile without faith, ignorance, or insanity. I think you are making a mistake about how much you care. It's easy to think you are good when your life is good. It's easy to give when you've got plenty. A good person gives when they have nothing - when everything they have has been taken. How could you understand that you are good?

How does God make the issue any easier?

Faith makes it possible to be unfairly good - being good amidst evil. When the world is beating people down, the natural reaction is to fight, lash out, or run away and give up...not to give. Faith allows believers to overcome. Now, if I were you I wouldn't judge faith by the way most "Christian" people act...most of them probably don't have much faith at all, so they are hardly able to beat their circumstances and be good examples.