(January 5, 2013 at 4:59 am)Undeceived Wrote:(January 4, 2013 at 11:29 pm)RichardP Wrote: When people would ask him what they should do to receive eternal life he would tell them that they should obey the Ten Commandments.Below are instances where Jesus preaches salvation by belief. How do you reconcile them with your claim that Jesus taught salvation by obeying commandments?
Luke 5:20 "When Jesus saw their faith, he said, 'Friend, your sins are forgiven.'"
Luke 7:50: "Your faith has saved you."
John 3:16: "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
John 11:25: "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies."
John 14:6: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
I asked for you to give me more examples where Jesus told people to obey the law to receive life. You reposted your one example. What do you think of my explanation of Matthew 19:16-26?
I don't reconcile them. I don't believe that Jesus could magically "forgive" anybody of their sins. I find the whole idea of forgiveness by in imaginary friend absurd.
You know if I do something bad to a friend -- and then later apologize -- my friend can forgive me. They can let it go and rationalize away why I did something bad to them. "He was taking out his frustrations from a bad day at work." etc..
But let's say that instead I prayed to my imaginary friend to forgive me for what I had done to my friend. And I argued that my imaginary friend always forgives. SO I GOT FORGIVEN!!!!! Except my friend is still angry at me...... And I am not going to say that I'm sorry to that jerk! I can at least have a clear conscience because my imaginary friend forgive my "sin" so that I can go on to an imaginary life after death.
I suppose that you could argue that the "sins" that Jesus had forgiven were "spiritual sins" (Not going to church on Sunday, using "God" as a cuss word, etc.).
I've even had a "Christian" friend tell me "I can feel in my heart that Jesus has forgiven me for what I did -- why can't you forgive me too?" Her imaginary friend forgave her... I didn't know whether to be annoyed or to feel sorry for her.
I see a real inconsistency between what Jesus preached and the supernatural miracles attributed to him. It is like a plot hole in a movie, or a story that you have written.
(January 5, 2013 at 4:59 am)Undeceived Wrote:Quote:In Matthew 19:17 Jesus replies, "Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only One who is good." He is questioning why the man is asking about being good by the law when there is "only One" who can be--God. He then tests the man's faith. Instead of telling him to refrain from doing evil (which is what the Ten Commandments calls for) he asks the man to selflessly sell everything and trust in God to provide. The man's true heart shows through as he leaves without doing what his Lord asked. Jesus sums up the narrative in verse 26 saying, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
On the surface it can appear as if Jesus is telling the man to obtain salvation by works. But in the second half Jesus contradicts himself. He says that it is impossible for man to obtain salvation on his own. Jesus used what we call a teaching strategy. He told the man to keep the commandments, knowing full well the answer would be "I have kept them." Then he watched the man walk away, having obeyed the commandments, yet fallen short of eternal life. The man "lacked one thing" even though he kept the law.
Again there is an inconsistency between the first part of what Jesus preached and the second part when he started talking about supernatural stuff. I can believe that somebody added the second part in later.