Reasons for God

[Edwardo Piet]

Faith makes it possible.

But my question is...how?

It is natural for a person to pursue survival/prosperity (and goodness to meet that end - "ebb and flow"), but that pursuit is not compatible with the pursuit of fairness for all (thus not natural).

What makes you think that is the only alternative to "faith"? How does "faith" make people any less selfish?

God enables the latter by ultimately ensuring the fair treatment of the faithful.

How does he? And how does that make the "faithful" any less selfish? How does it make them 'truely giving' and others - the 'faithless' - only doing it for survival?

Pursuit by the faithful of fairness for all is synonymous with the pursuit of unfairness of one's self for the sake of others.

How does having faith in God make people any more faithful to other people. There's a difference between "faithful" as in 'loyalty to others', and "Faith" as in 'having faith' in God, Jesus, etc, etc. It seems to me that you are equivocating. What makes you think that people can't be loyal, or "faithful" to each other without 'having faith' - in the sense of "Belief", as opposed to loyalty which is about Trust - in God?

This would be insane/suicidal/irrational without belief in God, who will reward the believer's unfair self-treatment - the believers pursuit of fairness for all.

How would it be insane? I doubt people need to see a psychiatrist for being altruistic when they don't believe in God!

And suicidal? Irrational? What the fuck? lol.

I think people can survive in this world and still be a good person... if religious people can do it, what makes you think non-religious people can't?

Like I said, we care because of empathy, and so do non-religious people. God isn't needed for that. You already conceded that we can emphasize and care without God right? I thought your position now was that empathy and caring itself was created by God, and without God there would people couldn't survive because they would all be selfish so they'd kill each other (they wouldn't even be capable of cooperating when it's most needed!)?

The desire for fairness for all is synonymous with the desire for God.

How so?

I want God to exist to bring fairness to all people.

Well what you want is irrelevant to the truth of the matter...

I, too, want fairness, but wishing for it or praying for it won't make a difference IMO, untill I know of any evidence that it will... and I don't see how God can make a difference whatsoever, until I know of any evidence that he 1. Exists and 2. Can necessarily do so (that he's omnipotent and caring enough, etc).

I want to live as if God exists, doing according to His will (i.e. bringing fairness to all).

Well to each his own... but what you desire doesn't change the reality of the situation.

I want fairness to all to, but I don't expect it to come from God because I don't believe he exists because I'm completely unconvinced.

Thus I believe God exists, and He is a fine possibility.

How so? How does the fact you desire him to exist for the reasons given, make it any more plausible whatsoever that he genuinely exists? And how does the desire for him existing, make the possibility 'fine'?

That's appeal to emotion and is fallacious in and of itself... desire and pleasantness doesn't add to the reality factor.

My faith, if strong enough, should enable me to put my own survival at risk for the sake of loving others - it should enable me to overextend myself.

What makes you think that "Faith" specifically, that belief without evidence specifically, in God, Jesus, etc - can enable you to do so?

Why would you not care without God? I certainly care without him... I extend myself because I care because I care because I care. It's just feelings, that I have, empathy that I have. There need be no ulterior motive to it, it's just feeling and caring, naturally. Empathy that is naturally within me and that is built into me by good upbringing. Partly genetically innate; partly environmental, cultural, social. I want to care because I want to. How is God required and how does it make it better?

I need to overextend myself in order to care for others as much as I desire to, thus God is necessitated by empathy.

So you think you can only empathize with God? What makes you think that? What makes you think that non-religious people, people such as myself, can't care without God? (Or at least not genuinely)?

I still fail to see how you have explained how having "Faith" in God makes you be able to care when others don't. Because you just asserted that it matters to you and applies to you personally because you feel that you wouldn't have a reason to care without it... and you also just asserted - it seems - that God is required for "Faith" and faith is required for true morality. And so, the reason why "faith" is required is because God is required and he is required for faith...

But you haven't actually explained how "Faith" is required, how it is given to us by God as a choice to 'have faith' in him and how we somehow would be unable to care without him.

EvF