Is castrating young boys ethical?

[Violet]

DeeDee, TEGH is clearly playing devil's advocate.

Maybe he is... but wager a guess to who isn't?

Aractus, I find myself agreeing with you, which is a rarity, so bravo. Poor Reimer's entire life was fucked because of what his parents and psychiatrist decided to do in response to a bad circumcision.

Have you considered that the parents might have sexually abused their children in other ways with simply another justification?

Because with the level that they went to... I dunno. Maybe things not going their way set them over the edge. Imagine if one of them came out as gay, or if one of them dropped a plate and it made a loud sound.

I do not believe that children should be allowed to have a body changing surgery that is not for medical reasons. One might argue that there are psychological reasons for it, but a child can live as their gender until they can have proper surgery to correct nature's mistake.

There are psychological reasons for it, those reasons *usually* surface hard around puberty... the real question is what is a 'child', and what makes you think that they can live as something that isn't themselves for so long as to make it past an arbitrary age line where their parents disbecome part of the process?

Survive? Well, they might just do that... but live, I'm really not seeing it.

My reasons for this are many and include the inherent risks with any surgery where you have to go under. I also think a person needs to make that decision without the input of his or her parents. I would neither discourage it or encourage it in my stepson, so as not to influence the decision. Nonetheless, I would not be party to putting him under the knife for cosmetic purposes during his childhood. Besides, I would prefer him not use his sex organs until he is an adult anyway.

Because the likelihood of a teenager not having sex until they are legally adults is... 'immense'.

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Surgery, yes, that's not exactly reversable. Hormones are a totally different story.

Not totally reversible... I mean, if you get C-cup breasts... those are not totally going away for decades.

Give that to a young child and they probably won't notice any effect for at least 2 or 3 months. Even up to about six months, everything from estrogen will reverse itself if you simply stop taking estrogen.

How young? If they are pubescent, then their body will develop *fast*. But I'd agree, in general: 6 months estro will revert (eventually).

This doesn't even mention how much easier it can make the rest of our lives if we get into hormones before male puberty makes changes to our body that cant' be reversed. I mean, do you have any idea how difficult it is for me to find women's shoes in size 11? The world also isn't exactly filled with women's clothes for a woman who's 5'10.

Huh, I was going to go with 'I mean, do you have any idea how scary it is to wake up with facial hair, and an angular squarish jawline and forward brow that would instantly ping me for male if I stopped getting estrogen.' Which I have, of course.

Or the deep-set eyes, or the MASSIVE FUCKING ADAMS APPLE and not innately womanly voice. I mean... body hair out the wazoo. Oh, and stuff happening in my scrotum is just annoying.

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It takes balls to do that.

Great big rubber ones, why do you think kids join choirs?

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Nope I am pritty certain that an argument about a moral issue cannot be concluded with an argument on esthetics.

Ummm... what do morals necessarily have to do with how pretty things are believed to be?

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Well. Remove your balls with a razorblade and after a period of 10 years tell me if the lack of sexual activity has caused any depression or other.

Depression...? No way, that sounds like freedom. I'd be pissed about ruining my future vaginal skin though.

Coincidentely, The catholic church child abuse scandle surfaced in southern Germany some years ago because a boy was so violently abused by a priest that his testicles had to be amputated when he was 11.
The scandle came to public light when that person comitted suicide in his 40s due to the resulting depressions he had.

If it was entirely due to this and this only... why did he wait so long?

I mean... I could have committed suicide ages ago. Alas, I'm not selfish... and I have something to look forward to. Maybe he's the same, minus that latter portion. 30+ years is a long time to give for others while the self is miserable...

And then, maybe I should stop making inferences about a life I know nothing about... a life you probably know nothing about as well. And if you do know something: please share

Nope. A human being is a learning animal and can always learn new traits, it might be capable to learn more as a child but the capability of learning itself never fades away.

Well, it's mostly true, try learning a language in your thirties... your progress compared to learning that same language in your teens or early childhood is absolutely pathetic.

In other words... sure: you're capable of eventually learning... but by the time you do: your physical prime will have passed. There's a reason you don't see many 50+ year old professional athletes And you dont see many nerds suddenly change course after college to get into american 'football', even if they really wanted to: your time spent specializing in one thing necessarily takes away from time you could have spent specializing elsewhere.

And we're not allowed to bring up learning disabilities, right?

Again, I mentioned this before, learning never fades away and one is constantly capable to redecide what one learns.

Well... I've totally forgotten almost everything from school, including words from a language I love (BUT NOT THE RULES!) so.... it definitely fades away

And if you don't practice it, you can quickly find it all gone.

A scrotum doesnt grow back once you remove it.

One can do it as an adult (if there are no laws against self mutilation in place)

But before the age of 18 these decisions will not be taken seriously by a child, neighter can a parent make such a grave decisions for a child.

Thank goodness it doesn't... otherwise I'd be rather scared of getting rid of it. I hate that facial hair and body hair comes back. I WANT IT GONE, DAMMIT.

What is an adult?

What is so special about the arbitrary age line of 18? Could you not instead draw it at 30? How about 10? 14? 1234892147?

I decided (quite seriously, mind) that I was a woman when I was 13... so we have a decision which was taken seriously by a "child" (what is this word?). And we have parents circumcising their male and female children all over the globe, so it's quite (readily) apparent that infact: they can make such 'grave decisions' for a child.

One might even go so far as to say: it's their job.