Why do atheists even bother about debating Jesus?

[Confused Ape]

Why should I be terrified?

I said some people - I didn't name anyone in particular.

I looked up what the RCC had to say on the matter.

And you know what? They had NOTHING.

And if the organization supposedly based on his ministry can't produce any evidence.........

I still find Tacitus of interest, however, because of what he doesn't regard as superstition in his account of early Christians.

Tacitus Lifetime

Publius (or Gaius) Cornelius Tacitus (56 AD – 117 AD) was a senator and a historian of the Roman Empire.

If Jesus had existed he would have been within living memory for part of Tacitus's lifetime. In his later years most people would have had parents who'd lived when Jesus was supposed to have lived.

Autenticity And Historical Value Of Tacitut's Account

Andreas Köstenberger states that the tone of the passage towards Christians is far too negative to have been authored by a Christian scribe.[46] Van Voorst also states that the passage is unlikely to be a Christian forgery because of the pejorative language used to describe Christianity.[40] John P. Meier states that there is no historical or archaeological evidence to support the argument that a scribe may have introduced the passage into the text.[47]

Now to his sources.

However, Paul R. Eddy has stated that given his position as a senator Tacitus was also likely to have had access to official Roman documents of the time and did not need other sources.[23]
Scholars have also debated the issue of hearsay in the reference by Tacitus. Charles Guignebert argued that "So long as there is that possibility [that Tacitus is merely echoing what Christians themselves were saying], the passage remains quite worthless".[56] R. T. France states that the Tacitus passage is at best just Tacitus repeating what he had heard through Christians.[57] However, Paul R. Eddy has stated that as Rome's preeminent historian, Tacitus was generally known for checking his sources and was not in the habit of reporting gossip.[23

So on to Tacitus's report.

"Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind".

Tacitus doesn't regard the story of Jesus being executed by Pontius Pilate as superstition. So what could he have meant by "and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome"? Maybe he regarded the Jews hoping for a Messiah as being superstitious.

The Messiah in Judaism

The mashiach will be a great political leader descended from King David (Jeremiah 23:5). The mashiach is often referred to as "mashiach ben David" (mashiach, son of David). He will be well-versed in Jewish law, and observant of its commandments (Isaiah 11:2-5). He will be a charismatic leader, inspiring others to follow his example. He will be a great military leader, who will win battles for Israel. He will be a great judge, who makes righteous decisions (Jeremiah 33:15). But above all, he will be a human being, not a god, demi-god or other supernatural being.

This would definitely be a mischievous superstition from a Roman's point of view because Judea was under Roman occupation at the time. The last thing the Romans wanted was somebody claiming to be the Messiah and leading a rebellion.

Back to the article by a Rabbi -

CHRISTIANITY: A JEWISH PERSPECTIVE

When Jesus overturned the tables at the Temple the Sadducees had him arrested. Pontius Pilate the Roman Prefect was led to believe he claimed to be a Messiah; a pretender to the throne of Caesar. There were at the time Jewish pretenders claiming to be the King of Israel. At his trial before Pilate Jesus probably spoke of God and his being God’s agent. Pilate and Jesus could hardly understand each other. Pilate had Jesus crucified as a royal pretender.

This suggests that an historical Jesus could have been a bit like Brian Cohen in 'The Life Of Brian' - he hadn't been starting a rebellion against the Romans but Pilate was led to believe that he was claiming to be the Messiah and was intending to start one and so Jesus was executed. This could account for Tacitus's statement "and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment,"

Back to the Rabbi.

After Jesus’ death several of his disciples at different times and different places claimed to have seen him. This news spread and shortly people began to believe that he was the resurrected Messiah God had promised who would bring in the Kingdom of God.

Several disciples claiming to have seen him could have the rational explanation that they had grief hallucinations and thought they'd seen him. It's how people started to interpret the stories that led to further superstition and these people would have been Jews. "and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil,

A resurrected Messiah isn't the ordinary human being that Judaism insists the Messiah will be but this doesn't mean that some Jews in Judea couldn't have had barking mad ideas. After all, a quick look round the internet reveals that modern humans still come up with barking mad ideas - David Icke is just one example.

There's still the puzzle of how barking mad ideas which originated with some Jews in Judea spread to Gentiles and got mixed up with pagan themes, though.

None of this proves that there was an historical Jesus, of course, but Tacitus, who had access to resources dating from Jesus' supposed lifetime, didn't think it impossible that a real man was executed by Pontius Pilate.