free will paradox

[Esquilax]

@EsQ: That's great that you're good. As God is pure good then no one, not even you (no disrespect), comes up to that standard. Not getting to that standard limits your potential to get the most out of life. You're focusing on the just consequences of being bad. Of course this has to be so, or there isn't justice. Once a person has made good, then their punishment ends. This applies to the present, but has to be fully realised in the afterlife. Because as you know, life isn't fair.

Interesting. So despite the fact that I have committed no crime, I'm still to be punished? Presumably for original sin, or my lack of belief? I'd submit to you that neither of those are punishable offences; original sin would be a downright immoral thing to send someone to hell over, since we aren't in the habit of punishing the descendants for the sins of their forefathers. And I'd be shocked to hear you declare that god is love, yet still punishes disbelief like that.

Love is God, because no matter what, he still loves you. God won't force you to worship him, but nothing would make you happier than to do so. That's what God wants for you: the best you can be.

What a funny way of showing that love.

Do you think that the Jews were wrong in concluding that God is good then? They get this from the same text that you draw the opposite conclusion.

Yes, pretty much. Why? Do you think they'd occupy some special pedestal in my mind that would prevent me from saying they were wrong?

God loves all people. Unreservedly. Forgiveness is freely offered to everyone.

What, exactly, am I being forgiven for?

Like I said, worshipping God is what benefits you the most. Why shouldn't you want that? I am mystified.

How is worshiping god best for us? I mean, what positive benefits does it confer upon a person that can't be obtained elsewhere? Beyond that, it clearly doesn't work that way for everyone; people leave religions all the time, or convert between them, and I hear plenty of stories about adults and children driven neurotic by their fear of hell.

So you are saying that when your aim was not on goodness, you were happier?? Yes we hear that all the time. Perhaps you were confused about what God is. Because bettering perfect good is a nonsensical claim. Your bitterness tells another story.

Careful: she said nothing about goodness, she said she stopped believing in god. You may think the two concepts are inextricably linked, but they're still two distinct concepts, and she gave up on one of those, not the other. As for this claim of perfect good... highly dubious, unless you can furnish me with some proof. I'll keep an open mind, if you happen to have some studies linking religiosity with happiness, I'll take a look. But don't call my fiancee bitter: even after deconverting she's the sweetest woman I've ever met. Nothing changed in her for the worse when she stopped believing, and I was around for the before and the after, there.

I see. So you are blaming God for the mistakes of misguided people.
And then you replace that with superstition: luck.

Two things: one, those people were claiming to be representing what god wants/can do, and notably god did nothing to correct that misconception, despite the fact that doing so would be the honest thing- important for a just being, I would think- and would have prevented some serious suffering on missluckie's part. Secondly, god rather did allow her to enter that state of ill health through no fault of her own to begin with, didn't he?

Lastly, she's hardly worshiping luck, just observing that she's fortunate to be alive. Something I agree with: she could very easily have died, and from the perspective of our nonbelief, the fact that she didn't does make her lucky. And I, for one, am immeasurably glad for that.

Yes them too. I bet you're still going to say they got it wrong.

Seriously, do you think we all have some intellectual soft spot for the jews??? Why would we be reluctant to say that they were wrong?