RE: Men & children killed & dismembered by an atheist.
February 7, 2013 at 4:02 pm
(This post was last modified: February 7, 2013 at 4:10 pm by naimless.)
I understand where you are coming from, AtlasS.
When I have tried to point out that faith can have positive effects, I am often greeted with a picture of the twin towers. Bothering to point out that Stalin was an atheist seems redundant as these people are often not interested in learning from a debate - rather just reaffirming their belief that all religion and religious stuff has bad (or more bad) consequences, whilst experiencing atheism leads to good (or more good) consequences.
It really isn't always the case. Indeed, Sam Harris raises the point of Islam, Christianity, and Judaism having more negative consequences than Jainism. However, Hitch has argued that Judaism was not seen as a threat at all before Zionism as these people needed to be protected, so it is impossible to measure which will become more dangerous.
But I suspect that latter point is what your whole intention of the thread was. It is impossible to tell whether someone's personal experience would have been better or not with faith or with atheism. Indeed one of Islam's strongest points is that the West has succeeded in creating a materialistic society with little moral consequence.
And one cannot deny that, looking at sex advertisements and having the options of morning after pills and abortions for the consequence of carelessness. Indeed, there seems a fundamental level of the more greed and more you gamble and consume, the more you are rewarded. The nice guys never win. The "God Bless America" film always comes to my mind.
But yes, in general I agree with your point that - if you exonerate atheist people from their crimes due to lack of faith, then you have to do the same for religious people who did it because of faith. Indeed, discussing these things highlights to me the lack of free will individuals have in the matter. Often drug addicts and those with mental illness are people who need more compassion to achieve a similar mindset and yet all we do is give them more seclusion.
It is the same with killers.
When I have tried to point out that faith can have positive effects, I am often greeted with a picture of the twin towers. Bothering to point out that Stalin was an atheist seems redundant as these people are often not interested in learning from a debate - rather just reaffirming their belief that all religion and religious stuff has bad (or more bad) consequences, whilst experiencing atheism leads to good (or more good) consequences.
It really isn't always the case. Indeed, Sam Harris raises the point of Islam, Christianity, and Judaism having more negative consequences than Jainism. However, Hitch has argued that Judaism was not seen as a threat at all before Zionism as these people needed to be protected, so it is impossible to measure which will become more dangerous.
But I suspect that latter point is what your whole intention of the thread was. It is impossible to tell whether someone's personal experience would have been better or not with faith or with atheism. Indeed one of Islam's strongest points is that the West has succeeded in creating a materialistic society with little moral consequence.
And one cannot deny that, looking at sex advertisements and having the options of morning after pills and abortions for the consequence of carelessness. Indeed, there seems a fundamental level of the more greed and more you gamble and consume, the more you are rewarded. The nice guys never win. The "God Bless America" film always comes to my mind.
But yes, in general I agree with your point that - if you exonerate atheist people from their crimes due to lack of faith, then you have to do the same for religious people who did it because of faith. Indeed, discussing these things highlights to me the lack of free will individuals have in the matter. Often drug addicts and those with mental illness are people who need more compassion to achieve a similar mindset and yet all we do is give them more seclusion.
It is the same with killers.
