RE: Religion and LGBT people
February 26, 2013 at 8:13 am
(This post was last modified: February 26, 2013 at 8:40 am by Gabriel Syme.)
Sorry it took me a while to return to the thread.
I think we have very much reached the end of useful discussion, here. The longer these threads go on, the more they just become therapy threads for certain people to use to rant and rave at the world (we have seen this in part already).
To briefly sum up my contribution:
- Mainstream Christianity does not "hate" LGBT people at the thread title suggested. In reality, it fully acknowledges the dignity and worth of such people. However, it does have a fully informed view about human sexuality. Some people like to pretend that being honest about human sexuality is "bigoted" or "homophobic" - but this childish name calling is only bcause they have nothing more valid to say.
I conceed that the behaviour of some minor protestant Christian sects is unfair and hateful towards homosexual people. This is of course unacceptable, but we should be careful not form a false view of Christianity based on these irrelevant people.
- Catholic teaching is not responsible for HIV in Africa or elsewhere. I have posted fully referenced data which shows that (i) In the west, its gay men who proliferate HIV, and (ii) in the devleoped world it is non-Catholics. Neither of these groups is known for their close adherence to Catholic teaching. It is very telling that, the groups who sexual behaviour is most removed from Catholic teaching, are the groups worst affected by HIV.
It is a malicious lie that Catholic teaching is responsible, usually put about by those with something to hide themselves. Global public health experts agree with the fundamentals of Catholic teaching and have stated that Catholic teaching is supported by empirical data.
These above are the main two points I wanted to express, above.
I also noticed the following question:
Why did God make gay people?
No-one is meant to be gay. We all have heterosexual bodies, intended for heterosexual sex. Its just like when Ford or Nissan have to recall cars , because some issue or fault has been found. They didnt mean to make cars with a fault, it just happened. Something went wrong and a different result occurred. So too with homosexuality.
I have also seen people writing about gay peole "going to hell".
Mainstream Chrsitianity does not suggest gay people are 'going to hell' purely for being who they are. I dont really know where misconceptions like this come from - its good to know what you are talking about, before weighing in on any subject lol!
Best regards
GS
I made no contradiction.
I said what homosexuals do isnt really sex. Sex involves both partners joining their sex organs. Homosexuals cant do that. It isnt "sex".
Later I said that the media like to try to portray animals as gay, (as pro-homosexual propgaganda). There is nothing to substantiate this. I said the only thing which would definitely confirm animals were gay was if we (eg) observed two male animals sodomising one another.
Then I said we will not ever see this, because for two males to sodomise one another - ie to fundamentally mis-use their bodies - requires artificial intervention (lubricants or whatever) and animals cannot do this, like humans can.
If was you I was thinking of, Esquilax, when I said thes threads just become therapy-threads for people to rant and rave on.
You have not really been engaging with my posts, you have been writing a completely distinct narrative where you generally ignore my points and favour attempts to insult me instead (jackass, liar, etc) and then draw unilateral conclusions, based on nothing but your own opinion.
The only time you engage with something I have said, is where you attempt to split hairs over some petty matter.
My perception of our interactions is that:
Me - I am trying to demonstrate a point of view I think is accurate and worthile, using relevant and referenced information. I think I have done a good job, for anyone willing to read my posts.
You - you are venting your personal feeling on the matter, (perhaps you are a homosexual yourself?), insulting me and attempting to portray views different to your own as being offensive and so unnacceptable.
It is clear that you fundamentally reject the reality of human sexuality and prefer to substitute reality with some fantasy situation you have invented because you find it more acceptable / easier to handle.
There is no real point in continuing our discussing, as I am not going to abandon the truth, and you will not quit your fortress of deception.
Replacing truth with fiction is very common among secular people, especially when it comes to potentially difficult topics like homosexuality and abortion. Whenever a secular person meets a situation they do not like, for any reason, they just pretend it doesnt exist and 'make up' something better instead. Anyone who does point to the truth is usually not appreciated.
(For an example, look at the amount of people on this thread who have tried to deny reality by claiming a false equivalence, physically, between homo- and heterosexuality - one guy even said it was just "opinion" that same sex bodies are not physically compatible - jaw dropping and more than a little scary to hear that. Clearly he has not yet been through basic biology class in early high school).
Cheers
GS.
I think we have very much reached the end of useful discussion, here. The longer these threads go on, the more they just become therapy threads for certain people to use to rant and rave at the world (we have seen this in part already).
To briefly sum up my contribution:
- Mainstream Christianity does not "hate" LGBT people at the thread title suggested. In reality, it fully acknowledges the dignity and worth of such people. However, it does have a fully informed view about human sexuality. Some people like to pretend that being honest about human sexuality is "bigoted" or "homophobic" - but this childish name calling is only bcause they have nothing more valid to say.
I conceed that the behaviour of some minor protestant Christian sects is unfair and hateful towards homosexual people. This is of course unacceptable, but we should be careful not form a false view of Christianity based on these irrelevant people.
- Catholic teaching is not responsible for HIV in Africa or elsewhere. I have posted fully referenced data which shows that (i) In the west, its gay men who proliferate HIV, and (ii) in the devleoped world it is non-Catholics. Neither of these groups is known for their close adherence to Catholic teaching. It is very telling that, the groups who sexual behaviour is most removed from Catholic teaching, are the groups worst affected by HIV.
It is a malicious lie that Catholic teaching is responsible, usually put about by those with something to hide themselves. Global public health experts agree with the fundamentals of Catholic teaching and have stated that Catholic teaching is supported by empirical data.
These above are the main two points I wanted to express, above.
I also noticed the following question:
Why did God make gay people?
No-one is meant to be gay. We all have heterosexual bodies, intended for heterosexual sex. Its just like when Ford or Nissan have to recall cars , because some issue or fault has been found. They didnt mean to make cars with a fault, it just happened. Something went wrong and a different result occurred. So too with homosexuality.
I have also seen people writing about gay peole "going to hell".
Mainstream Chrsitianity does not suggest gay people are 'going to hell' purely for being who they are. I dont really know where misconceptions like this come from - its good to know what you are talking about, before weighing in on any subject lol!
Best regards
GS
(February 26, 2013 at 8:08 am)Esquilax Wrote: Essentially what you're saying is that gay people can't have sex because they don't interact in the traditional straight sex way, and then in the next breath you're saying that animals can't be gay for the same reason. Do you not see the contradiction?
I made no contradiction.
I said what homosexuals do isnt really sex. Sex involves both partners joining their sex organs. Homosexuals cant do that. It isnt "sex".
Later I said that the media like to try to portray animals as gay, (as pro-homosexual propgaganda). There is nothing to substantiate this. I said the only thing which would definitely confirm animals were gay was if we (eg) observed two male animals sodomising one another.
Then I said we will not ever see this, because for two males to sodomise one another - ie to fundamentally mis-use their bodies - requires artificial intervention (lubricants or whatever) and animals cannot do this, like humans can.
If was you I was thinking of, Esquilax, when I said thes threads just become therapy-threads for people to rant and rave on.
You have not really been engaging with my posts, you have been writing a completely distinct narrative where you generally ignore my points and favour attempts to insult me instead (jackass, liar, etc) and then draw unilateral conclusions, based on nothing but your own opinion.
The only time you engage with something I have said, is where you attempt to split hairs over some petty matter.
My perception of our interactions is that:
Me - I am trying to demonstrate a point of view I think is accurate and worthile, using relevant and referenced information. I think I have done a good job, for anyone willing to read my posts.
You - you are venting your personal feeling on the matter, (perhaps you are a homosexual yourself?), insulting me and attempting to portray views different to your own as being offensive and so unnacceptable.
It is clear that you fundamentally reject the reality of human sexuality and prefer to substitute reality with some fantasy situation you have invented because you find it more acceptable / easier to handle.
There is no real point in continuing our discussing, as I am not going to abandon the truth, and you will not quit your fortress of deception.
Replacing truth with fiction is very common among secular people, especially when it comes to potentially difficult topics like homosexuality and abortion. Whenever a secular person meets a situation they do not like, for any reason, they just pretend it doesnt exist and 'make up' something better instead. Anyone who does point to the truth is usually not appreciated.
(For an example, look at the amount of people on this thread who have tried to deny reality by claiming a false equivalence, physically, between homo- and heterosexuality - one guy even said it was just "opinion" that same sex bodies are not physically compatible - jaw dropping and more than a little scary to hear that. Clearly he has not yet been through basic biology class in early high school).
Cheers
GS.
