Gods forgiveness is worthless.

[Drich]

Why ask a question when it is your intention to embrace your ignorance no matter what is said?

Drich,
I'm likely wasting my time with this, but will try to frame Downbeat's inquiry in a way you might understand.

Given:
1. Bill lopped off Ted's nut.
2. God exists and has a rule against assault.
3. Bill seeks forgiveness from the aggrieved.

God is aggrieved because his rule was broken. I concede that only god can grant forgiveness for his rule being broken, but this wasn't the grievance being addressed in the OP.

The OP was addressing Ted's grievance: missing nut. Only Ted has the power of forgiveness regarding this grievance.

Do you understand and agree?

I understand, the grievance that Ted would have against Bill. And I also conceed that Ted has the right to withhold forgivness (for all that it matters in Ted's world.) This however has no impact on the Sin itself, as God is the one who determines what Sin is. Therefore it is to God we must repent of the sin, and to Ted (in this case) that bill must try and make amends with.

DP is trying to make the case that the agreived has priority as he is the one lance armstrong-ing it because of the actions of Bill. Again trying to make amends to Ted should be on Bill's to do list, but it is not the determining factor of Ted's eternal salvation. Matter of fact the oppsite is true.

For if Ted Can not forgive Bill, then Ted's sins against God will not be forgiven either.

There is a really nice parable that sums all of this up if you want to hear it.

---

So if a woman is raped...let me get this right....god is the one who is wronged!

In so far as Sin is concerned because it is the standard in which our deeds are measured against's God's expressed will. Yes.

And you think this is an ok way to look at things do you? this seems reasonable to you?

Yes, Why? Because God has a standard apart from the standard in which we use to govern our own interactions with each other.

We simply Give to God what belongs to God. Sin and forgiveness is God's deal, we have our own Crime and punishment standards we live by in order to be apart of soceity.

Honestly the more I find out about the way theists think the more I think they are a different breed.

That is the Idea.