Hi everyone,
I got the idea for this thread, from reading downbeatplumbs signature, quoted below.
(downbeat - hope you don't mind me using this to start a discussion)
Now, what s/he says above here is correct, but I am curious as to where the sentiment of some of all religion being anti-science comes from?
I can only informed to properly speak for Catholicism, not others, but I am sure other groups - Juadism, Islam etc - boast achievements of their own. (I know that when Catholic Crusaders encountered Islamic culture in the Levant, as well as having a good fight, they also learned much from the muslims - about agriculture (irrigation), about chemistry (dyes etc), about engineering (water-wheels and water clocks) etc.)
For example, downbeat mentions the big bag theory above. It was a Belgian Catholic priest, Georges Lemaitre, who first postulated the big bang theory (You see, Georges was also a Professor of Physics and an Astronomer at the Catholic University* of Louven).
The big bang is a good example, as it allowed us to understand the creation mechanism of the universe. (Prior to this, scientists thought the universe had always existed and laughed at those who said it had been created somehow.)
*btw - do you know it was the Catholic Church which invented Universities? (and it has founded many, across the world). These centres of higher learning excellence are the direct descendant of its earlier "Cathedral Schools". The earlier Cathedral Schools developed into Universities around medieval times.
I just don't get why some people regard Catholic / other religion as anti-science or anti-knowledge, when facts like these are easily available for anyone to check up on.
Catholicism has always had a great respect and desire for scientific learning. As the Catholic Church is the oldest institution on earth, its fair to say it has an unrivalled on-going contribution to the advancement of human learning (both in terms of discovery and in the provision of popular education relating to discovery - the Church is the biggest non-Government educational body in the world).
For example, Seismology is known as "the Jesuit Science" thanks to that particular Catholic Orders work there. Many stars and features in space are named after the Jesuit priest-astronomers who first discovered them. Today, the Churchs stances on contentious topics are fully informed by science, such as homosexuality (Biological science) and abortion (Human embryology). In contrast, secular society either denies or ignores what science has taught us in these cases.
Some people like to suggest the Church used to like to tell people what to think, but has since been "put in its place" by science. but even a quick glance at Catholicisms history shows this to be false.
Saint Augustine of Hippo was an early Church philosopher, born in 354 AD. My Primary School was named after him (fact of the day for you!). He said:
Saint Thomas Aquinas, the Churchs greatest philosopher and theologian, lived much later than Augustine, in the 1200s, and said:
That's as true today, as it was in the 1200s.
These quotes show that Catholicism has always figured that science knowledge is valuable and cannot be denied. And that stating something which is demonstrably false will just get you treated like the fool you are.
The only thing of substance you ever hear against the Church is the stuff about Galileo. In truth, his trial and house arrest was more down to a personal beef with the Pope, than any of his work. Previously, the Pope had been a personal friend and his patron, but they fell out as Galileo was seen to have (felt to have) publicly insulted him, though subtly. In those days, you didn't get away with that kind of thing and so a biased charge was rigged against him to put him through the wringer for his 'insolence'.
The only reason you hear of it is because of it must be the only example of such a personal feud between a Pope and a scientist.
Today, the Catholic Church works to promote science for the good of humanity via the Pontifical Academy for Science. It does this hand in hand with people of other faiths and with atheists. For example, at least two of the current three British members of the Pontifical Academy for Science are openly atheist (including Stephen Hawking).
So what do you guys think?
Do you perceive religion, or just some religion, to be 'anti-science'? Why?
Do you see science and religion as being mutually exclusive, enemies even? Why?
As stated, I can only speak in any detail about Catholicism, but for us - at least - the idea that we seek to suppress scientific discovery or the spread of knowledge is an exceptionally erroneous criticism.
Cheers
GS
I got the idea for this thread, from reading downbeatplumbs signature, quoted below.
(downbeat - hope you don't mind me using this to start a discussion)
Quote:Even if abiogenesis, evolution, the big bang theory and all the rest of science was fundamentally flawed it would not be an argument for gods existence
Now, what s/he says above here is correct, but I am curious as to where the sentiment of some of all religion being anti-science comes from?
I can only informed to properly speak for Catholicism, not others, but I am sure other groups - Juadism, Islam etc - boast achievements of their own. (I know that when Catholic Crusaders encountered Islamic culture in the Levant, as well as having a good fight, they also learned much from the muslims - about agriculture (irrigation), about chemistry (dyes etc), about engineering (water-wheels and water clocks) etc.)
For example, downbeat mentions the big bag theory above. It was a Belgian Catholic priest, Georges Lemaitre, who first postulated the big bang theory (You see, Georges was also a Professor of Physics and an Astronomer at the Catholic University* of Louven).
The big bang is a good example, as it allowed us to understand the creation mechanism of the universe. (Prior to this, scientists thought the universe had always existed and laughed at those who said it had been created somehow.)
*btw - do you know it was the Catholic Church which invented Universities? (and it has founded many, across the world). These centres of higher learning excellence are the direct descendant of its earlier "Cathedral Schools". The earlier Cathedral Schools developed into Universities around medieval times.
I just don't get why some people regard Catholic / other religion as anti-science or anti-knowledge, when facts like these are easily available for anyone to check up on.
Catholicism has always had a great respect and desire for scientific learning. As the Catholic Church is the oldest institution on earth, its fair to say it has an unrivalled on-going contribution to the advancement of human learning (both in terms of discovery and in the provision of popular education relating to discovery - the Church is the biggest non-Government educational body in the world).
For example, Seismology is known as "the Jesuit Science" thanks to that particular Catholic Orders work there. Many stars and features in space are named after the Jesuit priest-astronomers who first discovered them. Today, the Churchs stances on contentious topics are fully informed by science, such as homosexuality (Biological science) and abortion (Human embryology). In contrast, secular society either denies or ignores what science has taught us in these cases.
Some people like to suggest the Church used to like to tell people what to think, but has since been "put in its place" by science. but even a quick glance at Catholicisms history shows this to be false.
Saint Augustine of Hippo was an early Church philosopher, born in 354 AD. My Primary School was named after him (fact of the day for you!). He said:
Saint Augustine of Hippo Wrote:"Whatever they can really demonstrate to be true of physical nature, we must show to be capable of reconciliation with our Scriptures; and whatever they assert in their treatises which is contrary to these Scriptures of ours, that is to Catholic faith, we must either prove it as well as we can to be entirely false, or at all events we must, without the smallest hesitation, believe it to be so."
Saint Thomas Aquinas, the Churchs greatest philosopher and theologian, lived much later than Augustine, in the 1200s, and said:
Saint Thomas Aquinas Wrote:The truth of our faith becomes a matter of ridicule among the infidels if any Catholic, not gifted with the necessary scientific learning, presents as dogma what scientific scrutiny shows to be false.
That's as true today, as it was in the 1200s.
These quotes show that Catholicism has always figured that science knowledge is valuable and cannot be denied. And that stating something which is demonstrably false will just get you treated like the fool you are.
The only thing of substance you ever hear against the Church is the stuff about Galileo. In truth, his trial and house arrest was more down to a personal beef with the Pope, than any of his work. Previously, the Pope had been a personal friend and his patron, but they fell out as Galileo was seen to have (felt to have) publicly insulted him, though subtly. In those days, you didn't get away with that kind of thing and so a biased charge was rigged against him to put him through the wringer for his 'insolence'.
The only reason you hear of it is because of it must be the only example of such a personal feud between a Pope and a scientist.
Today, the Catholic Church works to promote science for the good of humanity via the Pontifical Academy for Science. It does this hand in hand with people of other faiths and with atheists. For example, at least two of the current three British members of the Pontifical Academy for Science are openly atheist (including Stephen Hawking).
So what do you guys think?
Do you perceive religion, or just some religion, to be 'anti-science'? Why?
Do you see science and religion as being mutually exclusive, enemies even? Why?
As stated, I can only speak in any detail about Catholicism, but for us - at least - the idea that we seek to suppress scientific discovery or the spread of knowledge is an exceptionally erroneous criticism.
Cheers
GS
