"What if he does not want your help in any way shape or form? What if from the time he could speak he made it clear he did not like you or your authority over him? Would you force him to accept you and what you offered? Would you force Him to stay in your house even if he was old enough to leave?"
If my son wants to leave, he can leave. But at least his decision will come from experiencing something, and then deciding that you want something else.
If my Son wanted to walk out of my house, but I knew for certain that there was immediate life threatening danger awaiting him on the other side of the door, yes, I would make him stay. If it means saving his life, absolutely. But, I would also explain to him and show him why I did what I did. I wouldn't have to force him. I could show him. The way that I would show him wouldn't be cryptic or abstract or open to interpretation. I would use words and logic. I would communicate to him using methods he is equipped to understand. You are suggesting that in order for us to have free will, there must be a preordained consequence to choosing something different. The old expression "My way or the highway" is not bad. If you don't like the way someone does things, you are free to leave. What if it were "My way or eternal torture"? Keeping in mind that God can change any of these "necessary variables" in this game. Why has a compassionate God setup such a cruel game made up of choosing mysteries behind doors? Why not show us what we need to see. Convey directly using methods we are equipped to comprehend. Even if God himself were standing in Times Square performing miracles left and right, bringing folks back from the dead, and handing out t-shirts, and someone still didn't believe...IT STILL WOULDN'T BE OKAY TO TORTURE THEM! Not on that criteria! In fact, the possibility that such pain and suffering is possible when an alternative way could have been designed is cruel. They are playing the hand they were dealt. Not everyone thinks the same way. You are a perfect example of this. If someone doesn't believe in even those circumstances, it would be because the tools they depended on to think, the very ones they were given, were not meant to arrive at the same conclusion. It's not grounds for torture. I can't think of any circumstance that would warrant such punishment for anything so silly as not believing something is real and not devoting their life to worshiping it. But God isn't standing on the street handing out t-shirts and performing miracles or bringing folks back to life. He is a character being interpreted a million different ways and marketed as a champion for clarity, charity and goodwill with an undying thirst for praise and frightening threats of torture if one were so bold as to not worship Him how He sees fit. There are thousands of supposed Gods in circulation, and you don't believe in most of them. There isn't anything any of the followers of any of the other religions could do to change your mind yet you find it hard to comprehend how I and all of us could believe in just one less God than you. I would really question the concepts you are defending right now. Challenge everything you are justifying and keep in mind...ALL POWERFUL, UNLIMITED POTENTIAL, NOTHING IS OUTSIDE HIS ABILITIES. If there is one other possible way of doing things that saves one more "SOUL" from pain of any kind, why not set things up that way? Don't you see the error in this logic.
Of course it makes sense that if I refuse God he shouldn't make me love him, but the sick part you are failing to recognize is the consequence to the alternative! He is allowing the terrible consequence! It's in his power to change it. But, wants it this way. You somehow think this makes sense? This seems ok to you? This seems like the perfect scheme of things?
God is the supposed perfect being. If he designed a chain of events, based on free will, that ultimately results in the torturing of anyone for anything so trivial as a disagreement in how much worship He deserves, its sick.
I'm sorry for spelling errors. I didn't have time to revise!
If my son wants to leave, he can leave. But at least his decision will come from experiencing something, and then deciding that you want something else.
If my Son wanted to walk out of my house, but I knew for certain that there was immediate life threatening danger awaiting him on the other side of the door, yes, I would make him stay. If it means saving his life, absolutely. But, I would also explain to him and show him why I did what I did. I wouldn't have to force him. I could show him. The way that I would show him wouldn't be cryptic or abstract or open to interpretation. I would use words and logic. I would communicate to him using methods he is equipped to understand. You are suggesting that in order for us to have free will, there must be a preordained consequence to choosing something different. The old expression "My way or the highway" is not bad. If you don't like the way someone does things, you are free to leave. What if it were "My way or eternal torture"? Keeping in mind that God can change any of these "necessary variables" in this game. Why has a compassionate God setup such a cruel game made up of choosing mysteries behind doors? Why not show us what we need to see. Convey directly using methods we are equipped to comprehend. Even if God himself were standing in Times Square performing miracles left and right, bringing folks back from the dead, and handing out t-shirts, and someone still didn't believe...IT STILL WOULDN'T BE OKAY TO TORTURE THEM! Not on that criteria! In fact, the possibility that such pain and suffering is possible when an alternative way could have been designed is cruel. They are playing the hand they were dealt. Not everyone thinks the same way. You are a perfect example of this. If someone doesn't believe in even those circumstances, it would be because the tools they depended on to think, the very ones they were given, were not meant to arrive at the same conclusion. It's not grounds for torture. I can't think of any circumstance that would warrant such punishment for anything so silly as not believing something is real and not devoting their life to worshiping it. But God isn't standing on the street handing out t-shirts and performing miracles or bringing folks back to life. He is a character being interpreted a million different ways and marketed as a champion for clarity, charity and goodwill with an undying thirst for praise and frightening threats of torture if one were so bold as to not worship Him how He sees fit. There are thousands of supposed Gods in circulation, and you don't believe in most of them. There isn't anything any of the followers of any of the other religions could do to change your mind yet you find it hard to comprehend how I and all of us could believe in just one less God than you. I would really question the concepts you are defending right now. Challenge everything you are justifying and keep in mind...ALL POWERFUL, UNLIMITED POTENTIAL, NOTHING IS OUTSIDE HIS ABILITIES. If there is one other possible way of doing things that saves one more "SOUL" from pain of any kind, why not set things up that way? Don't you see the error in this logic.
Of course it makes sense that if I refuse God he shouldn't make me love him, but the sick part you are failing to recognize is the consequence to the alternative! He is allowing the terrible consequence! It's in his power to change it. But, wants it this way. You somehow think this makes sense? This seems ok to you? This seems like the perfect scheme of things?
God is the supposed perfect being. If he designed a chain of events, based on free will, that ultimately results in the torturing of anyone for anything so trivial as a disagreement in how much worship He deserves, its sick.
I'm sorry for spelling errors. I didn't have time to revise!
