(March 20, 2013 at 9:14 pm)Tonus Wrote:(March 20, 2013 at 8:55 pm)Drich Wrote: What I am asking/saying is that we do not know what it cost God/Christ to be our sin sacerfice. So to say Christ died for us big whup." Is foolishness, because again we do not know nor are we told the complete extent of Christ's sacerfice.
That is an interesting approach. I admit that while I was taught that the ransom sacrifice of Christ was the basis of Christianity (it is how humanity is redeemed) I had never thought about what the cost was to Jesus or god until I'd long left religious belief behind. Had I ever been asked to consider that, it would have vexed me something awful, because that's the whole idea of sacrifice-- giving up something of great value to yourself in order to gain something greater for others. And Jesus considered it the greatest expression of love, to give your life for your friends.
I would consider it imperative to understand the actual cost, because that's what the faith is based on, that the sacrifice was necessary to save humanity. If we don't even understand what has been lost, how can we know what has been gained?
There are things we do know that Christ gave up ie. sacrificed. Christ being part of the Holy Trinity gave up His separation from sin to become sin. So God suffered knowing sin instead of the purity He had always know, this was done for all people. Christ gave up His great powers when He came as Jesus, Jesus relied on the Father's power, this means He had to trust instead of always being trusted, this was done for all people. As Drich said, Christ gave up His righteousness and became sin, this in itself should be proof of His love, this was done for all people. Christ gave up not ever suffering to suffer greatly for us and He gave up not knowing death to die for us, He experienced death, this was done for all people. Christ gave up His greatness to be born a human, His riches to be poor, His eternal strength to become tired, so tired He had to stop and rest, His complete satisfaction to be hungry, dirty, relying on man to feed Him, yes Jesus relied on human frailty for His needs, this was done for all people. Christ gave up being King over man to become a servant for man, this was done for all people. I could go on but I think that gives some things to think about. As Drich said, we do not even know what Christ may have give up in eternity, for all people.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.