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Is belief really a choice?
#68
RE: Is belief really a choice?
(April 4, 2013 at 12:41 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Because we had intelligence and communication and we needed harmony, etc...we wouldn't be satisfied doing things without believing intrinsic value to that, even if that value was in an instance serving ourselves. But it's mostly for others and doing good to others, and getting positive feed back.

We also wouldn't have structure of morality, if no one praised any action or person.
I think you've confused what you have, what you prefer, with what may have been needed. Any concept that achieved the same result as you feel "praiseworthiness" achieves would stand in just fine for "praiseworthiness". Just because your view of morality seems to require praiseworthiness does not mean that all morality requires it, or that some other morality (or as above...anything that achieves the same effect) could not have stood in. What this has to do with naturalism.......specifically, has eluded me.




Quote:But if he made a decision, what can he possibly say that shows he made a decision with regards to belief?
Oh, I'd take his word for it with very few provisions, mostly related to the transparency I mentioned. I like to be thorough - so I;d set up a couple of (admittedly easy to overcome barriers) to tomfoolery.

Quote:If I said I chose to believe 9/11 was wrong in my teens, when at a moment it was confusing...I had to make a decision...and now that I've grown stronger in that decision, in seeing it's wrong...etc...how am I suppose to demonstrate the "will" in that and the choice?
That would be a poor place to put our test. If we wanted confidence in our results we would start at a point of common experience. The present, for example. We would have our belief put down in a clear way- in a public way, so that we could refer to it later - when we managed to make that choice we claim we are capable of making.

Quote:It's unseen, and can't be proven empirically but perhaps, perhaps, can be witnessed via experience of your own decisions of beliefs.
My own experience is that I do not choose to believe things. This doesn't mean that no one else does, but I'd like to see it done. Think of it like this, if someone told you that they could fly (and you couldn't...despite for all you know, being the same creature) you'd really like to see that wouldn't you? If the request was followed by no demonstration - but in fact a list of excuses....you'd call bullshit, wouldn't you?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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Messages In This Thread
Is belief really a choice? - by Joel - March 22, 2013 at 9:35 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by KichigaiNeko - March 22, 2013 at 9:41 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Joel - March 22, 2013 at 9:43 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by LastPoet - March 22, 2013 at 9:44 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by KichigaiNeko - March 22, 2013 at 9:48 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Neo-Scholastic - March 23, 2013 at 12:39 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Tonus - March 22, 2013 at 9:51 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by thesummerqueen - March 22, 2013 at 10:06 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by downbeatplumb - March 22, 2013 at 11:43 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Angrboda - March 22, 2013 at 1:02 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by KichigaiNeko - March 23, 2013 at 10:36 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by MysticKnight - March 22, 2013 at 8:51 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by CleanShavenJesus - March 23, 2013 at 12:24 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Joel - March 23, 2013 at 12:58 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by everythingafter - March 23, 2013 at 1:30 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by NoraBrimstone - March 23, 2013 at 5:01 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Joel - March 23, 2013 at 5:05 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by NoraBrimstone - March 23, 2013 at 5:10 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Joel - March 23, 2013 at 5:12 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by pocaracas - March 23, 2013 at 5:33 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Simon Moon - March 23, 2013 at 5:55 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by GordonHide - April 4, 2013 at 8:53 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2013 at 9:13 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by thesummerqueen - April 4, 2013 at 9:14 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2013 at 9:16 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2013 at 9:49 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2013 at 10:08 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2013 at 10:12 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by thesummerqueen - April 4, 2013 at 10:15 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2013 at 10:17 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2013 at 10:27 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2013 at 10:28 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2013 at 10:47 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2013 at 10:30 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2013 at 10:34 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2013 at 10:36 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2013 at 10:38 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2013 at 10:45 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2013 at 10:50 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2013 at 10:55 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2013 at 11:04 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2013 at 11:09 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2013 at 11:05 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Neo-Scholastic - April 4, 2013 at 11:36 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2013 at 11:07 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2013 at 11:18 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2013 at 11:23 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Neo-Scholastic - April 4, 2013 at 11:41 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2013 at 11:48 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Mononoke - April 4, 2013 at 11:26 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2013 at 11:34 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by thesummerqueen - April 4, 2013 at 11:38 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2013 at 11:44 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2013 at 11:39 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2013 at 11:47 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2013 at 11:54 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2013 at 12:10 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2013 at 12:14 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by thesummerqueen - April 4, 2013 at 12:20 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2013 at 12:21 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2013 at 12:25 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2013 at 12:41 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by thesummerqueen - April 4, 2013 at 12:26 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2013 at 12:30 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2013 at 12:35 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2013 at 12:53 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Silver - April 4, 2013 at 2:45 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2013 at 3:07 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Silver - April 4, 2013 at 3:10 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2013 at 3:13 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Silver - April 4, 2013 at 3:25 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by thesummerqueen - April 4, 2013 at 3:14 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2013 at 3:18 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by thesummerqueen - April 4, 2013 at 3:18 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by fr0d0 - April 4, 2013 at 3:28 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Silver - April 4, 2013 at 3:34 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2013 at 3:32 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2013 at 3:34 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Silver - April 4, 2013 at 3:37 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2013 at 3:36 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2013 at 3:45 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2013 at 3:38 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Silver - April 4, 2013 at 3:46 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2013 at 4:08 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Silver - April 4, 2013 at 4:28 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Joel - April 4, 2013 at 4:13 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Silver - April 4, 2013 at 4:21 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Tonus - April 4, 2013 at 4:37 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2013 at 4:24 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Joel - April 4, 2013 at 4:23 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Silver - April 4, 2013 at 4:33 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Joel - April 4, 2013 at 4:27 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2013 at 4:33 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2013 at 4:33 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2013 at 4:36 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Silver - April 4, 2013 at 4:40 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Joel - April 4, 2013 at 4:37 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Joel - April 4, 2013 at 4:41 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Silver - April 4, 2013 at 4:46 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2013 at 4:41 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Joel - April 4, 2013 at 4:47 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Silver - April 4, 2013 at 4:51 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2013 at 4:54 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Neo-Scholastic - April 4, 2013 at 5:23 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2013 at 5:30 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Joel - April 4, 2013 at 4:55 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Silver - April 4, 2013 at 4:58 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2013 at 4:59 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Joel - April 4, 2013 at 5:00 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2013 at 5:04 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2013 at 5:32 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Silver - April 4, 2013 at 6:00 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2013 at 6:06 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Silver - April 4, 2013 at 6:13 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2013 at 6:49 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Silver - April 4, 2013 at 6:52 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2013 at 6:53 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by OneOfAKind - April 5, 2013 at 1:03 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by GordonHide - April 5, 2013 at 3:19 pm
Re: Is belief really a choice? - by NoraBrimstone - April 5, 2013 at 4:56 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Silver - April 5, 2013 at 4:58 am
Re: Is belief really a choice? - by NoraBrimstone - April 5, 2013 at 5:38 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Silver - April 5, 2013 at 5:41 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2013 at 8:46 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by KichigaiNeko - April 5, 2013 at 8:52 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Neo-Scholastic - April 5, 2013 at 8:58 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by KichigaiNeko - April 5, 2013 at 9:00 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2013 at 9:22 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Tonus - April 5, 2013 at 3:23 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by KichigaiNeko - April 7, 2013 at 9:01 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Tex - April 6, 2013 at 1:15 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by fr0d0 - April 6, 2013 at 2:21 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Tex - April 6, 2013 at 3:56 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Whateverist - April 7, 2013 at 1:25 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by MysticKnight - April 7, 2013 at 1:28 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Tex - April 7, 2013 at 5:50 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Gearbreak - April 6, 2013 at 3:40 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by jstrodel - April 6, 2013 at 6:15 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by GordonHide - April 7, 2013 at 1:05 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by MysticKnight - April 7, 2013 at 1:12 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by GordonHide - April 8, 2013 at 2:23 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Joel - April 7, 2013 at 6:54 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Tex - April 7, 2013 at 7:18 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by TromboneAtheist - April 7, 2013 at 7:23 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Tex - April 7, 2013 at 7:31 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by The Grand Nudger - April 7, 2013 at 7:44 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Whateverist - April 8, 2013 at 2:14 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Silver - April 8, 2013 at 2:19 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by KichigaiNeko - April 8, 2013 at 5:31 am
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Polaris - April 8, 2013 at 11:23 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Gabriel Syme - May 3, 2013 at 1:44 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Whateverist - May 3, 2013 at 1:49 pm
RE: Is belief really a choice? - by Joel - May 3, 2013 at 2:23 pm

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