Intelligent design type evolution vs naturalism type evolution.

[popeyespappy]

MN, why not get your explanation from the horse’s mouth. The Flagellum Unspun The Collapse of "Irreducible Complexity" is a short article by Kenneth Miller the scientist that testified against irreducible complexity in the Dover trial.

I think he strawman's irreducible complexity. The reason is not that any parts can't be missing like he goes on to prove (like some proteins or whatever) and still function.

I think he either misunderstands the irreducible complexity issue or is purposely strawmanning the argument or perhaps this is because I'm thinking of the particular version of Michael Behe's argument.

It's that there is essential components, not that you can't find some missing parts in some life form that is found in another life form, and therefore you disprove irreducible complexity.

Moreover, as we are discussing in this thread, showing "stage A" and "Stage B" in nature, while reasoning of Michael Behe seems to suggest to me, that going from stage A and Stage B might be impossible due to the fact you have various parts working together and that can't occur by small changes, because they aren't advantageous when not working in that function and have to somehow be heading towards that direction.

LoL! How can it be a stawman if he shows how you can remove parts and still have a functioning (and useful BTW) system.

Michael Behe, the originator of the term irreducible complexity, defines an irreducibly complex system as one "composed of several well-matched, interacting parts that contribute to the basic function, wherein the removal of any one of the parts causes the system to effectively cease functioning".

You can remove proteins from the flagellum and have a functional T3SS. The flagellum could have evolved from a T3SS like system by slowly adding additional proteins to the structure over time. The addition proteins need not even add an advantage as they are being added as long as they aren't a disadvantage. As Rhythm has tried to point out.