free will paradox

[Mystical]

So sorry I'm late back onto this thread. I have no idea why I missed it. Maybe I was living or something. Who knows. Credit to missluckie26 anyway for pointing my mistake out.

I recall your posting in other threads just fine at the time, so I doubt you were just 'living'.
Just sayin.

I was not a JH or a Mormon. I grew up bouncing cities, states, and Christian churches. I've been to methodists, baptists, lutherans, southern baptists, catholics (once), but for the most part my parents stuck with christian churches without such titles, based on the level of spirituality that the pastor had. That said, my parents did end up at some extreme churches when I was young that made them conclude not to stick to a particular denomination for good reason; one church ending in suicide after they left, another they left because the pastor boasted and propagated child molestation. We even went to Ted Haggards' church when he was hatin on the gays. From those experiences my father kept with him the extreme view on the bible, and to this day believes women should not own land or hold office and are the reason the country is going to hell in a hand basket along with the fact that gays, muslims, and removal of religion are also contributing to the the world going to hell. He absolutely cannot contain his excitement for the End of Times.
My mother on the other hand takes care of the purest innocent of humans on this planet for nothing in return, she's even too tired in her good works to go to church anymore.

Thanks. Interesting.

Honestly... I think your family, as you describe them, are less Christian than any of the atheists I've met here. These people are shining examples of virtue in comparison. Most of them also have a better understanding of the bible. And that's those that have never experienced it.

You might not like it, but it's demonstrably true.

Demonstrate how this is true then.

Yeah that's secular morality. Proof of the God given bit.

It is not proof of the 'god given bit'. It is proof that morality is a staged process, initiating in the simplest of animals, and moving up the chain with the progression of consciousness.
A mouse is conscious if another one is caught in the mouse trap and will be upset. But if the other mouse is starving, it's not going to go give up it's food source for the sake of the other. A chimp, on the other hand, will. Humans, surprisingly often, choose not to.

It says in your anger don't sin. Not, if you're angry you're not sinning.

Basic 101. Jesus, in his anger, turned over the tables in anger. Anger isn't bad. Holding a grudge is bad.

"In your anger don't sin" ... in your innocent act (anger), don't sin (let that anger lead to what is bad - holding a grudge).

Basic 101. Jesus, in his anger, crafted a barbed whip and whipped those people. Oh and turned the tables over. He was so angry he made a weapon with which to reprimand them. That means he didn't do this in "I see it and it made me angry so I got upset.". He had premeditated anger which I would consider, a grudge.

Where in the Bible does it say god is perfect? Just curious. Or in a dictionary under perfection, where there is god = perfection?

From a quick google:

Deuteronomy 32:4 The Rock, his work is perfect, for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and upright is he.
Psalm 18:30 This God—his way is perfect; the word of the Lord proves true; he is a shield for all those who take refuge in him.
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
Matthew 5:48 You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Here are verses that I see as directly contrasting gods' actions that are described by this one issue alone.

“I the Lord do not change” (Malachi 3:6a)

“You are not a God who takes pleasure in evil; with you the wicked cannot dwell” (Psalm 5:4).

“When you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is at work in you who believe” (1 Thessalonians 2:13b).

I'm sorry those seem to support what I'm saying

Did you even watch this? No. Try again. It's there.. the point is there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pla...x7irFN2gdI

Can't you see that I see you as being hypocritical and illogical yourself? That god cannot be perfect if he commits imperfect acts and is a hypocrite for judging us to hell for qualities he himself has shown? Before you say the typical, who are you to judge god BS please take a minute to consider that I am not indeed here to slam your beliefs. I'm here to talk to you about your beliefs. I'm not here talking to you to debate you and have fun with the word war you're ensuing. I dislike it highly, actually. I'm literally here to find out what is keeping you faithful and why, and all you can do is tell me I'm perverse and bastardising your bible.

I see no argument from you. Just the empty and groundless accusations reapeated without support. I've discussed this many times with atheists over a few years now, and none come up with any rational objection.
God does not commit imperfect acts
God does not show imperfection

Woof that's quite the burden of proof you put on me, there's just so much... I'll have to follow up post on that one

Be a darling and point your position out for me please, in detail?
Also, please translate for me this statement: You're hung up on what is to you a taboo langueage. Get over it.

Taboo language: if I use religious dogma/ express it in the words of religion or theology, you throw the toys out of the pram. If we talk in non theological terms you will say the opposite, because you're hung up on the religious language.

What the fuck are you talking about? Do you even know anymore what you meant by the statement?

Kyu is a materialist. He sees the world as only explainable by science. Almost violently so. that is what I referred to as his "box". It's a limitation and not an open minded perception of the world. Wilfully ignorant. A position of deep, unjustifiable faith.

Yeah I get what you're talking about with the box. 1. How is it using faith to observe what's around you, interpret that data, and form a conclusion and conclude against there being a god?
How is this willfully ignorant if all the evidence leads to there not being a god?
2.What do you mean by 'violently so'? Did he threaten you? Did he tell you that you're going to an eternal damnation for not believing in what he believes?

Lets take my example of one of my "hells" of a bastardized perversion of your own beliefs that I'm projecting onto you, and if you can please explain to me how I am perverting your beliefs feel free to educate me. Seriously.


So what is your problem with any of that?

Read. Think. Then post.