Show me your proof

[Tex]

Oh, and please try not to tell me what to do and say. That's not nice.

You might not like it, but it doesn't make it "not nice". However, if you'd like, you may ignore my posts.

By the same criteria, the existence of this god of which you speak would be...what, exactly? The existence of all that "other stuff" is proof of the existence of other stuff. Not exactly groundbreaking - and certanly not proof of any god.

We know of a hot pockets' existence by our senses. We know of existence by commonality. I can draw a bunch of different looking triangles on a white board, and you will find that common to them all is "triangle". Similarly, common to everything is "existence". This is the epistemology on the premise "stuff exists" for the necessary being proof.

I don't want to talk about the proof of necessary being though. I want to talk statistics.

God is evident from the fact there is something outside of me. I exist. Other stuff exists. Where did the existence comes from? If they were just simply here, what allows them to do that?

This is nothing but simple shifting of the burden of proof. A common and familiar creature, easily recognised by its distinctive wailing cry and unkempt plumage. Traditionally regarded as a bird of ill omen, as its appearance in a discussion often signifies approaching defeat.

This is not intended to be a shifting of the burden of proof. These are intended to be rhetorical questions that are only answerable through a deity. However, I don't want to talk about the proof by necessary being. I want to talk statistics.

Where did the existence comes from?

I can understand your inability to accept that the universe has possibly always existed, and that earth was created as a result of a Big Bang, but claiming that a deity is the creator that always existed would also contradict your claim that the existence around us could not have always existed. Just because science does not yet have all the answers does not mean that a deity is the answer. Choosing the deity route with no evidence to back up the claim is pure laziness.

Do you not read? I'm claiming that God literally is "the existence around us [that] always existed". The only difference between your claim and mine is that I see the necessity of that Existence to be a being.

But never mind that. I am not trying to argue by contingency. I know that works. I'm trying to see what responses against my statistics argument. Please critique my argument by statistics. I do not know if it works or if I messed up. In giving it to the atheist audience, I'm hoping that any flaw will be revealed. Thank you for your assistance.

God is evident from the fact there is something outside of me. I exist. Other stuff exists. Where did the existence comes from? If they were just simply here, what allows them to do that?

That is an infinite argument that would apply to god and his creator and his creator and his creator and his creator and his creator and his creator and so on infinitely.

In a non-deistic universe, yes, and ad infinitum. This is not the argument I am making.

So what does explain this reality of ours?

Existence itself is a being.

The truth is, I don't know the answer. The truth is, you don't know the answer.

Answer is above.

I do know what the answer isn't, however, and that is religion.

Religion is the organization of a belief. You're correct, no existence of an organization proves a god. Reasoning from effects to the cause (logic) or the experience of the direct cause itself (God literally shows up and says hi) are the only ways to have complete certainty. If one has divine revelation, that is probably a very bad way to convince people. Logic should be the only route of teaching there is a God.

It's also safe to say that, whatever is responsible for the existence of the universe, isn't something that is, at all, invested in the human struggle and doesn't really meet the most accepted definition of a god.

This is baseless. Perhaps there are reasons for not interfering often, even if heavily concerned. For analogy, the government does not force business deals, even if it is beneficial to everyone.

The same way that it is impossible to truly grasp the infinite size of the universe or time, our existence and everything around us is probably even more difficult to grasp.

The universe is not infinitely large. The last estimate I heard is that there are 10^80 atoms.

Doesn't stop us from making shit up to explain it. However, we should have enough sense to reject those fairy tales.

Dogma. You sound like a catholic.

And, by the way, I hardly consider scientific theories to be the same thing as man made inventions about god. Theories are man's attempts to put the pieces together and gain a better understanding, which is pursuit important to evolution and the survival of our species.

But you accept philosophical and theological that presuppose your theories! What scientific data says that gaining more scientific data is better? What science experiment says that the survival of our species is good? Some questions are not answered with physics and chemistry.

God is evident from the fact there is something outside of me. I exist. Other stuff exists. Where did the existence comes from? If they were just simply here, what allows them to do that?

Well, I see you've got your religious affiliations as Christian up here... that's an additional claim, isn't it? Because "stuff exists" can only get you to a creator, not specifically the christian god. Even if we're charitable and accept your reasoning here exactly as it is, it's obviously not the end of the story. Either something additional happened to you to get you to christianity, or this is a post hoc rationalization that you mistakenly believe extends further than it does.

Finally, some reason! You're correct, no proof I've submitted or anyone has submitted (that I've seen) on this site proves their own specific God. I can get close to the Christian God with logic (I've yet to post any such thing), but it is impossible to get everything that incorporates the Christian God. The thing I'm nearly certain that can never be proven is the Christian concept of Grace. Grace is "the unmerited favor of God". Because it is unmerited, there isn't really a cause-effect relationship. I doubt that "God sent a Messiah to redeem us" will ever be proven logically.

The reason I fall towards Christianity is because it is closest to what I can prove (the next closest is Taoism, fyi). Also, the teachings I cannot prove do not contradict each other and mesh quite nicely with what can be proven. Truly, I have no complaints with Christianity (the only complaint I have with Taoism is the lack of an efficient cause).