(April 25, 2013 at 7:50 am)Esquilax Wrote: 1: Are we replacing gods with nature, though? We don't worship nature, though many of us admire it. I think, if you spend a little time looking around, the thing that'll strike you hardest is just how diverse our opinions and beliefs actually are. There's no atheist dogma, no strictures or organizational structure that one must be a part of; atheism is a single position on the existence of gods, nothing else.
((Hmm, true enough there you make a valid point. I am have now noticed this personally. Thanks I wanted to confirm and see a straight line answer.))
2: Who's claiming objectivity? I obviously can't speak for all atheists (see point the first) but I'm not claiming certain knowledge or an objective standard; merely that religions of all stripes have not yet demonstrated their claims to be true according to the burden of proof that they have. "I don't know," is hardly a claim to objectivity, is it?
((Good, back in my apologectic days (I was a rather potent one). Most of the atheists claim objectivity. And Yes I dont know is the most intellectually honest thing a person can say. And yes I agree with you on religions.))
3: Once again, the stance isn't "nature came into being out of nothing," but "I don't know how the universe came into being, and so far no religion has demonstrated that they know either, though they profess otherwise." Atheism isn't an idea about creators it's an idea about gods, and more specifically, religions.
((I honestly agree with your statement as you explained above. Atheism does not make a claim in regards to creators (or lack thereof) more the idea of our perceptions of gods? Correct me if I am wrong.))
Besides, how do you know things don't come from nothing, on a universal scale? Do you know something we don't? Ever been to the big bang? Measured it? Do you have another universe with which you can run tests to prove this claim?
((Well inductively and through current observation we can make an educated guess, now deductively I do not know, and have no evidence. Now concering the big bang yes I have been to one. It is one wild party, but I was to drunk to remember anything. However I woke up with two hot stars. <----could not resist))
See, that's the fundamental thing, here; my atheism does exactly one thing for me. It gives me the perspective to stop myself from making blanket claims about things I cannot possibly know for sure.
((Thanks for the answers, it kinda broadens my view on atheism, as stated I used to be a pretty good (atleast I thought so) apologist. And you really only see a small part of athiesm.
I would be a televangelist....but I have too much of a soul.