A challenge about women and marriage in Islam

[paulpablo]

Age lines are not a logically defendable legalization tool. They are made out of economics

Explain what this sentence means, I know legalization is the removal of a legal prohibition on something, I've never heard of a legalization tool before so I don't know what a logically defendable legalization tool is.

Emotion plays a pretty solid role in formulating or modifying these, even. The lawmakers just 'feel like' the age of majority should be X

Who are the law makers and how do you know what the law makers are feeling?

very few go deeper and ask "Why do I feel this way? What's so special about 10/13/14/16/18/21/30/etc?". Just take a look at this thread as an example... take a look at all of the other nonsense we've had about age over the years

How do you know what the law makers are asking themselves?

What nonsense have we had on this thread? The statistics? The documented videos? The countries where children are dying after becoming pregnant at such a young age and are being abused because they are at a young age?

Which leads to the real point: this isn't about 9 year olds, but instead this: *WHAT ARE THE CHARACTERISTICS OF <A BEING> WHICH ALLOW FOR (in your eyes) THE FUCKING AND/OR MARRYING OF SAID BEING?*

You don't get to dictate what this thread is about, the thread is about the islamic system of marriage, this system allows marriage to a 9 year old, this is what I find disagreeable so I will disagree with it on this thread, you don't get to just say "this isn't about 9 year olds" It is.

Am I invisible? Are my letters as white as the forum snow? Do my words fall upon deaf ears? Did my observation that LGB(t?) people typically have their first sexual experiences earlier than heterosexual people just get ignored again in favor of something I'm not arguing... again?

Gays lesbians and bi sexuals have nothing to do with this thread whatsoever, it is about the islamic system of marriage, unless I've been misinformed by a what seems to be the muslim majority, muslims don't seem to keen on gays or lesbians marrying at all, or having sex at all. Although there are debates on even that topic. If you want to start a different thread on whether or not the age of consent should be lowered specifically for gays lesbians and bi sexuals then that's fine I'll debate you on that thread too.

As for why I wouldn't believe him, we have a few (well, at least one) really good muslims about who have talked about this specific thing before. Most of them do not recognize the young lady married to Mohammed to have been eight (or whatever), but rather at least 13 (or somesuch)... and not necessarily (or even likely, given Mohammed's character) consummated at that time.

You complain about my sources of data yet the reason you don't believe Muslim scholar is incorrect is because one single solitary Muslim told you that muhammad might not have had sex with a 9 year old.

Historical records on anyones character from this far back will be cloudy at best.
You are making absolutely no point whatsoever because I know a lot of muslims do believe that Muhammad married the girl at age 9 and that Muhammad is a perfect role model, that's all that needs to be said.

The only info you are putting forward here is that you spoke to one muslim who told you muhammad was probably a nice man who probably didn't have sex with a 9 year old...so what?

They only appear magnified because of age... had these men you've presented had older wives: they would be suffering a similar level of abuse.

Your asking me if someone I don't know will have still beaten their wife who I don't know, in some sort of magic world where she becomes older than her husband instead of younger. The answer is I don't know.
I would make a guess though that it is easier to beat up a 9 year old, to talk a 9 year old into doing things they don't want to do. Than it would be with a 16 year old for example, this is my opinion of every single person I've ever known ever, that they were less naive at 16 than at 9.

DATA POINTS. MORE OF THEM. COLLECT... or stop bleeding using them

I will stop using them because you have ignored the ones I have given already you don't need to see them again.

"I'll add again that I believe these to be wholly irrelevant to the philosophical concerns of the basic questions. Who gives a shit whether they are 9, 4, 3242, 1, freshly born, or 18: what are the primary factors that make a person 'marriageable' or 'fuckable'?"

I already answered the question on what doesn't make a person fuckable, you try and figure out yourself on what I think would make a person fuckable. And in my opinion the things you say don't matter do matter, sex with someone who is freshly born is out of the question but if you think its ok then that's up to you.