A challenge about women and marriage in Islam

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One man speaks Islam

What do you mean one man speaks Islam?

I mean that one man might speak using Islam as the direct source opinion, possibly devoting his life and his grounding into the material that is Islam. Another man might speak his opinion irrelevant of Islam, and then justify that opinion with Islam. The first man looks to understand first, and speak after that... the latter man looks to speak first, and may never understand.

If that didn't do it for you, let's take all subject matter out and present it like this: The first man is unwilling to have a stance until he's seen the data, the latter man has a stance already, and is looking for data to justify his stance.

It's the reason that we don't respect Christian scientists very often

By maturity I basically mean less reliant on a guardian. Sexually mature and so on.

When is *anyone* sexually reliant upon their guardian? That's just a little kinky there, Paul.

Okay then, so how about this: What is *reliance*?, and also, At what point does one become "unreliant" upon their guardian enough that they can decide shit for themselves?

Every Muslim I've spoke with about this topic does believe Muhammad married a 9 year old, including the poster of this thread.

That's cool.

I'll give you that their bodies are typically smaller and weaker than that of a healthy adult, but are they so much smaller and weaker than a 12 year old? How much larger and stronger are they than a 5 year old? Why does smallness impact vulnerability? There are plenty of benefits to being small, which make one less vulnerable in many scenarios... Why do you count smallness among one's vulnerabilities? Is not largeness also a vulnerability?

No, smallness impacts vulnerability because it's easier for a bigger person to hit a smaller person and beat them up, it's pretty self explanatory there's no need for me to go into the physics or biological reasons for this.

Bigness impacts vulnerability because it's easier for someone (big or small) to hit a big person and beat them up, and you can rough them up quite a bit more without killing them. It's pretty self explanatory, there's no need for me to go into the physics or biological reasons for this.

Or maybe a person's size is irrelevant when abuses are upon them visited. Hey, maybe next you'll be arguing that women are easier to abuse than men because there are more holes in them

It's a pretty good idea to educate children.

That's... all you had? Really?

Okay then, let's do it again:

WHY is it a pretty good idea to educate children?

We'll get to the bottom of this rabbit hole when you stop answering several floors up of basement.

What was the actual point you were trying to make by posting that graph? It just showed that the very countries you said had a high amount of people below 18 years old giving birth were also the countries with a high amount of deaths caused by child birth? Are you arguing for me or against me?

Read that again. Consider: what do the medical facilities of Chad look like? How about Bangledash? Poor people's medical facilities in India? The dominican republic... Niger, Mozambique, Uganda, fucking Somalia, Ethiopia?

Consider also: What is the economical status of these nations per capita?

Consider further: How many mothers died within 48 hours of giving birth due to postpartum hemorrhaging? I'm betting it's a lot of them... and the data I looked at while writing this would agree (it's the same place I got the first bunch from, will link relevant bit if you're interested). Treatment for such in *every* red colored country is sub-optimal in many cases, if present at all... and in many yellow coloured countries this is also a significant factor... not to mention the socioeconomic concerns of many of these countries...

Education and good parenting saves more lives.

Evidence of this... is ah... where?

Consider: we as a species survived with an education lower than that of a stone age for millions of years... and bad parenting seems to often still end with 'functional' offspring, indeed: how could it be otherwise?

I argue: surgery (alone of medical science) saves more lives than educators and parenting skills combined. The only thing that a 9-year old's education is capable of is speeding them up (and can bog them down in fringe cases) and the only thing 'good parenting' is capable of is building a child up emotionally and morally (the later of which is wholly subjective, and I would argue: mostly irrelevant).

We're playing a game now, back later