A challenge about women and marriage in Islam

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No we aren't clear on that, the videos featured Muslims but held no subjective opinion on muslims or made generalized claims about the entire Islamic world, they just showed the consequences of what happens when you legalize marriage to 9 year olds. The videos from what I remember actually didn't feature any non muslims or have any voice overs from any non muslims, they basically only featured Muslims and made no statement about the Islamic world as a whole, just to clarify neither did I.

'Showed the consequences of what happens when you legalize marriage to nine year olds...' conspicuously absent is showing the consequences of legalizing marriage to anyone. You're never going to respond to the observation that trust allows to vulnerabilities which do not occur without trust, are you? Anyways... you think that these things happen because of marriage? I think these things happen because of proximity, ease of access, seclusion (from population), and the desires of the abuser. Marriage only has an impact at all because it often consists of these roots.

Observe these stats for the USA http://www.rainn.org/statistics

Here's an excerpt, and bear in mind: THIS IS THE USA.

15% of sexual assault and rape victims are under age 12.

29% are age 12-17.
44% are under age 18.
80% are under age 30.
12-34 are the highest risk years.
Girls ages 16-19 are 4 times more likely than the general population to be victims of rape, attempted rape, or sexual assault.

And another one, with a very important bit to it:

In 1995, local child protection service agencies identified 126,000 children who were victims of either substantiated or indicated sexual abuse.

Of these, 75% were girls.
Nearly 30% of child victims were between the age of 4 and 7.

In the united states, where child marriage is not legal.

93% of juvenile sexual assault victims know their attacker.

34.2% of attackers were family members.
58.7% were acquaintances.
Only 7% of the perpetrators were strangers to the victim.

...

Honestly, I'd bet you my horse's left shin that most child pregnancies and the like you're seeing in those red countries isn't from arranged marriages: it's from family and friends. I'd love to find data to compare these, because I am actually quite interested in this subject.

Start another thread on it and I'll tell you

Why? Are you incapable of carrying on a discussion, or is it related to your attention span?

None of which has any relevance to circumstances involved in domestic violence but you seem to be advocating that we should also have 9 year old soldiers now in war?

I'm guessing you've never heard of a certain Joseph Kony?

But you're right: size doesn't have any relevance to circumstances involved in domestic violence. What does have relevance, you'll no doubt forget to ask, is appearance, reactivity, sensitivity, and the satisfaction of the abuser. And every abuser has a different bent... some want a little bitch to scream and cry at everything they do, some want a resilient will to break under their assault, some really just want to fuck something breathing, others get off on blanking another persons's mind through shock. Size is irrelevant, as not only do both men and women both commit domestic abuses... but the only decider of who will or will not be abused is the abuser. If big and muscular people are on their menu, then it's big and muscular people they'll go for.

Education existed before humans, monkeys educate their young.

So kind of Momma chimp to teach Baby chimp the delicacy what is human baby flesh. Truly, chimps are the scholarly masters of the natural world.

If we're going to go ahead and start talking about non-scholarly education: nobody drops out of education, ever... and you have lost this point entirely.

What's it gonna be: the monkeys, or the argument?

I never said these two things were important, I said educating children is important.

Pray tell us all: what are you teaching children in school at nine years of age that isn't basic arithmetic or language skills? Basic geography? PE? Please: when you find something that a 9 year old learns in school that will impact their lives... come find me Don't forget the practical work experience they could be getting in a job in your calculations.

Stunted growth, disease, just about everyone wheelchair bound, midgets, etc. What, you've never known any of these people? 0.o You know OF them, yes?

Yes, they all become stronger at age 16 than they were at age 9.

Now that's just ignorant. I have fucking disease noted in there. Please take this time to reconfigure your argument.

So you know people who got taller and stronger but became just as vulnerable as 9 year olds? Did they become more stupid? What happened?

Theoretically, they grew. Now they are more vulnerable to the shortcomings of being tall(er). Socially, they're expected to have a pretty significant grasp of etiquette (and are thus vulnerable to not meet an expectation that was far easier to meet at nine (consists mostly of "keep your pants on")). Physiologically, they've been absolutely flooded with hormones, and they are thus far more vulnerable to inflicting themselves with STIs, pregnancy, angst in general, etc. Visually and some assorted baggage that I don't feel like categorizing because it's 2:30: pimples, more severe body oder, body hair, facial hair, onset of male-pattern balding, ballsack drops (now that's a vulnerability), menstruation, menstruation, menstruation, and an insatiable desire to fuck/masturbate/orgasm-in-general. Among many many others. But then, some of these are also strengths in certain situations (pregnancy, someone else thinks your hairy twat is sexy, etc).

In exchange, they can lift a little bit more, and they have more mass, which is great... if you're not being shot at (by bullets, arrows... dodgeballs).

The 9 year old will be smaller weaker have less experience and will most likely be still reliant on some form of parent or guardian.

Okay... honestly, I don't know how you are construing smallness as a weakness and yet largeness not (it's not like america has an obesity epidemic or anything...). I really can't get behind it at all.

Weakness, on the other hand, CONGRATULATIONS: you have found a single thing which is a vulnerability in more cases than it is a resistance! Not that it's of particular note in most cases, however... I mean: I'm crazy weak, my muscles have atrophied for a good year and a half, but with proper leverage: I can get by without it. Anyway, this means that you consider physical strength to be a primary factor of fuckability/marriageability, yes? You've been saying it forever now, so I'll take it as such, feel free to tell me I'm wrong though. Well... where does this leave wheelchair-bound people, midgets, the elderly, the diseased, the malnourished, the starving, and the stunted of growth? I consider weakness to be a very weak mark upon which fuckability is to be based.

But yes 80 year olds are also of an age group which may be vulnerable because of their age and how it has effected their body.

Everyone of every age is vulnerable because of how aging has affected their bodies.

I'm not offended by you insulting me or by ignoring me.

Oh? Then don't be a twat when I respectfully inform you that I intend to get to a post later

It has a tendency to give people the wrong idea.

Are you omitting all potential forms of abuse for sake of argument without telling me? Because I am *not* omitting emotional, financial, social, sexual, physical, familial, psychological, or physiological abuses...

No a 9 year olds usually have less experience with money so are more vulnerable to financial abuse, less experience with people, less experience with sex, weaker physically, you will have to explain to me what physiological abuse is.

Experience really only brings you so far... that is to say: until you have been financially abused, you probably don't understand very well what it is like to be financially abused. We often learn by being abused... but if we're lucky, we can learn such things second hand. Now THAT would be a more effective schooling system for 9 year olds

Less experience with people is a wash, since we're all at least somewhat inexperienced with people. If we weren't: we would never be surprised by what people do. We would also be significantly less prone to outrage. You're going to have less experience with sex until you have sex, and really: there's a point where you can have too much experience with sex... more of a wash than the last one. Can you isolate specifically what makes a person fuckable or marriageable? If we base our notions of fuckability and marriageablity off of experience as shown above: we cannot be fuckable until we are first fucked, and we cannot be marriageable until we are first married.

Physiological abuse is when the functioning of an organism/its parts is abused. One example of this can be found in addicting someone to a drug, and using it as coercion/leverage against them, usually for purpose of control (take the whores of pimps, for instance). Most physiological abuses involve drugs, given that they modify the functioning itself (therein: physiological), but fringe cases of surgical abuses would fall under this, as well as forcing hypothermia/hyperthermia upon someone (a relatively common abuse up in alaska, I'd think).

You don't believe in that, since you're an atheist,

No I don't believe in stoning people to death for adultery because I think it's barbaric and inhumane, atheism is a lack of belief in god it doesn't effect my belief in not stoning people to death.

Context, Paulie.

Muslims believe in the Shariah as a code of behavior and discipline that was divinely revealed through the Quran and the Hadiths (or the sayings of Muhammad), so that is the system that they follow. You don't believe in (^)that(^), since you're an atheist, so you can follow or agree with whatever system that you feel is correct.