RE: False perceptions about Atheism and Agnosticism
May 30, 2013 at 8:56 pm
(This post was last modified: May 30, 2013 at 9:09 pm by Colanth.)
(May 30, 2013 at 8:03 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote:According to the Greek language. "Theism" is belief in one or more gods. The "a" prefix means "lack of the following". So atheism is lack of belief in one or more gods.(May 30, 2013 at 4:41 pm)smax Wrote: Many Theists feel Atheism is the denial of the existence of god, and that Agnosticism represents a completely different perspective altogether.
And correctly so.
Quote: It isn't, and it doesn't. Atheism is simply the answer to a question:
Do you believe in god? No.
According to whom? You?
Quote:But since atheism is "do you believe in any god", not "does God exist" (that one can't exist, since Christianity defines it as to be impossible), you're asking for proof of what one thinks. How would you like someone to prove that he lacks belief in gods? fMRI?Quote: The Atheist does not, by definition, carry some burden of proof that god doesn't exist.
Actually when dealing with an interrogative such as “Does God exist?’ the atheist shares an equal amount of the burden of proof as the theist
Quote:you should learn your rules of formal debate before you make such silly claims.Says someone who violated them in the very post in which he made this assertion (and is debating a subject he evidently knows very little about).
Quote:Well ...Quote: Further more, most Atheists are also Agnostic, as Agnostic is simply the answer to another question:
Do you know that god doesn't exist? No.
Again, according to whom?
Since Huxley invented the term, according to him. It's not really the answer to a question, though, it's a position - "do not pretend that conclusions are certain which are not demonstrated or demonstrable".
Quote:Agnostics generally do not appreciate being lumped in with atheists, there’s a reason they have chosen to self-identify as agnostic and not atheist.And not as human? Or not as American? One can self-identify as both an atheist and as an agnostic. (Many here do.) One can also self-identify as a theist and an agnostic.
Quote:Since atheism isn't "God doesn't exist", it's a nonsensical challenge. If you're a Christian, "prove that 2 = 3" is about as "fair".Quote: "You are an Atheist, so prove that god doesn't exist?"
That’s a fair enough challenge.
Quote:No, because that's not what it says. He's saying that when you understand why you reject the notions of Isis, Jove, Odin, etc., you'll understand why non-Jews reject the notion of Yahweh and non-Christians reject the notion of God (which is the English name of the Christian god).Quote: "Atheism"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
Wait, so he dismisses the existence of all gods because they are not Yahweh? That doesn’t make much sense.
Quote:I’ll conclude with the actual definition of atheism…To quote someone else in this post, "According to whom? You?" Oh, and you're wrong. The word isn't "the", it's not "ism", it's theism - from the Greek "belief in one god".
a-the-ism
The word literally breaks down to mean a belief in no god because “a” is modifying “the” rather than “ism”.
Quote: Atheism - the doctrine or belief that there is no God. (Webster’s Dictionary)Christian sources have Christian definitions.
Quote:“Atheism is the position that affirms the nonexistence of God. It proposes positive belief rather than mere suspension of disbelief.’- Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy [emphasis added by SW]It's not "suspension" of disbelief, it's disbelief itself. This is one of the worst dictionary [mis]definitions of "atheism" I've ever seen - it's not just biased, it's completely incorrect.
Quote:AgnosticismAlready defined by Huxley when he coined it (and he gave a full explanation of what he meant by it, and why) - so any definitions that differ from his are merely nonsense (at best).
Quote:Huxley's agnosticism seems nevertheless to go with an extreme empiricismIt doesn't matter - he created a word and defined it, so that's what it means. You can't argue that "it doesn't mean what he said it means because ..." if you want to be taken seriously.
Quote:So since it’s obvious that you were wrong about the definition of atheismYou're reading the wrong part of the script.
Quote:and the distinction between atheism and agnosticismAgain, according to whom? Not according to Huxley - whose opinion is the only one that matters here.
(May 30, 2013 at 8:46 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote:Really? Evidently we all missed that post. (Dictionaries don't give definitions, they give usage.)(May 30, 2013 at 8:40 pm)smax Wrote: meet Statler, proof that not all Theists understand the proper definition of the word: Atheist.
I cited the proper definition of the term, and I cited my sources
Quote:you merely cited your own opinion.I cited the Greek language, from which the word was taken.
Quote:Actually it's a valid appeal to authority, in one sense - that atheists get to define what we are.(May 30, 2013 at 8:45 pm)smax Wrote: You captured the meaning of the word perfectly.
So far, Theists are not in agreement regarding the definition of the word: Atheist.
Atheists, on the other hand, all seem to have a perfect understanding.
It seems clear that the merits of this thread were valid, as we attempt to clear up the confusion among Theists.
That’s a fallacious appeal to authority
Quote:Little Monkey does not have the credentials to define the term atheist for all of us. Do you have anything better?Greek. Your "'a' modifies 'the', not 'ism'" seems to be totally lacking in citation, reference, authority, validity, sense ... However, the etymological definition of atheism says that the 'a' modifies the 'theism'. (It's defined as disbelief, which is defined as lack of belief.)