(May 31, 2013 at 2:27 pm)ronedee Wrote:
ThomM Wrote:Sorry - but the word "miracle" has too many definitions to answer your question in the manner you want.
Sorry you are wrong, a miracle is an unexplainable act by a supernatural being.
ThomM Wrote:I can use the word "miracle" in this sentence - If I live to see my youngest son actually clean out, wash, and wax his car - it will be a miracle.
Obviously - if it does happen - the "miracle" will have been performed by a human.
A failed use of the word, humans are not supernatural beings they have not the ability to perform a miracle.
ThomM Wrote:Today - humans perform LOTS of "miracles". WE have cured cancer for some - eliminated some diseases - established government to take the place of religious nonsense - and men have actually traveled to - and walked on the moon - as well as having sent other satellites around the solar system. We have modes of transportation that do not require feeding an animal - and even have ways of communicating with people 10,000 miles away from us almost instantaneously.
Once again a failed use of the word, all of that is explainable, and humans can not preform acts considered supernatural. The bolded can be taken to mean nothing, however the rest are good things accomplished by humans, not miracles though.
ThomM Wrote:All of the above and many more of the things in our daily lives - refrigeration - canning - cooking - housing - construction - and lots of others would have been looked on as miracles to people only a few hundred years ago.
Now you're talking nonsense, these things could not have been possible without the processes of one step at a time by humans, they could have never existed in past history, irrelevant to this discussion.
ThomM Wrote:The problem with religious people is they are UNWILLING to admit that in fact - there are no things that happen that do not have a natural explanation now - it is just that we may not yet have the explanation.
Misleading, those things that do not have an explanation now may never have an explanation, you sir are purposing a miracle to suppose an explanation come to light in the future.
ThomM Wrote:And over the centuries - Lots of things that were once called miracles are things that people have better ways of doing today. (Fire was once a miracle - we have other ways of cooking today)
Now you're bordering on the ridiculous, fire was never seen as a miracle. The first fires were from natural things, lightning, volcanic eruptions and ect. These things were easily explained by ancient man.
ThomM Wrote:In the absence of proof of the existence of a god - and COMPLETE absence of the existence of a god as defined by religion
Now your talking "miracle", God has keep Himself hidden these many thousands of years except to those who truly desire to be a part of grace. Salvation is a miracle of astounding proportion, of coarse it comes from a supernatural being and it can't be explained except upon the day of one's death.
ThomM Wrote:Sorry - but the problem is that - with all of the FAILURES of religion - and the inability to show any act works (Prayer has never been proven to have any statistical significance) - it is more correct to assume that if something happens for which we have NO explanation NOW _ there will be one later.
Why the shouting, did you get excited about all the nonsense you posted. I've seen this prayer thing stated to many times now, doctors, even those who do not believe have said, they've seen prayer bring around patients and give them hope and directly contribute it to help in the healing of people. To assume that a miracle will be able to be explained in the future is all one can do, that is unless you have some supernatural power to look into the future. There is no way you can do a statistical proof on prayer, you can not control who is being prayed for by whoever, prayer for one outside of the study is impossible to discount.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
