RE: The five "R"s that probably inspired the invention of god and religion:
June 1, 2013 at 1:20 pm
(This post was last modified: June 1, 2013 at 1:34 pm by smax.)
(June 1, 2013 at 8:10 am)Faith No More Wrote: Evidence?
Absolutely. As much as any theory can have evidence, anyway. Each of the conditions I presented are present in religion today. In fact, lots of historical evidence exists, as books such as the Bible, Quran, and the Bagvadhgita all include these conditions.
Quote:All of this unsubstantiated speculation about the motivations behind the religious and religion is just playing into the stereotype that non-believers simply don't "get" religion. Remember, bare assertions are not good foundations for an argument.
I completely disagree with you here on several levels. First of all, it's a theory, and not one that is unsubstantiated, and one that has been widely speculated about for many thousands of years.
Further more, many well accomplished scientists, philosophers, and other related experts, have theorized and published many similar speculations. It's not as taboo as you make it out to be.
Secondly, like you, I was a member of religion, therefore, I can speak from first hand experience about certain motivations, practices, and experiences. These not only include my own experiences, but those shared with me by other members, including several different levels of congregants.
Thirdly, what stereotype are you talking about? As a former member of the Christian faith, I don't recall any such stereotyping going on? And, even if it did, why should any non-believer care? I, personally, accept that there is a distinguishable difference between myself and someone who has an imaginary friend. We've all had them, some of us just grew up and gave them up entirely at some point.
Besides, these points suggest that I do get religious motivations, as many of these points are made by religious people all the time:
Regulation: "The Bible says marriage is between a man and a woman" - Former US President, George Bush.
Reunion: "I can't wait to see my grandfather when I get to heaven" - typical quote
Reason: "And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose." - The Apostle Paul
Retribution: "I hope you burn in hell" - Random fan mail for Richard Dawkins.
Reward: "God will prepare everything for our perfect happiness in heaven, and if it takes my dog being there, I believe he'll be there." - Evangelist Billy Graham
What you call unsubstantiated speculation, I call careful observation.
Quote:Regardless, I find it much more likely that religion began as primitive man's attempt to explain the world around him, and these five "R's," as you put it, were incorporated later on.
Fair enough, and I don't see any harm in you speculating as much.
But I have to ask, why does this subject offend you so much?
(June 1, 2013 at 8:40 am)The Germans are coming Wrote: look at rural communities, religion can offer a base for people to meet and connect and build bonds.
several communities throughout the american south, in which no other methods and places for social conecting are not provided are held together by their churches who do not only provide the mass but other events which can bring a community together.
If this should be debated, then it is important to stay objective. even when some of us like to solely concentrate on religions negative effects.
religion is not only a simplicistic way of totalitarian crowdcontrol - it can provide the services required to give a community stability.
True. Unfortunately, it doesn't always draw the line at the appropriate place.
(June 1, 2013 at 11:53 am)Sal Wrote: I'm of the conviction that religion started gradually, out of fear and ignorance, and developed as our first attempt at explaining natural phenomena; something Christopher Hitchens also believed. And as first attempts usually go, failed miserably.
And this is really the point of this thread, to explore and speculate about the origins of religion.
(June 1, 2013 at 12:02 pm)Minimalist Wrote: The most primitive hunter-gatherer societies we have available for study show an animist religion based on the idea of everything having a "spirit."
The best explanation for that is the realization that something happens when an animal dies and the solution that primitive humans came up with is that the "spirit" leaves the body.
In truth - its really no stupider than what theists believe now.
Could you expand on the bold? I've never heard of any such phenomenon.