(July 12, 2013 at 3:27 pm)Faith No More Wrote: I think it's important to keep in mind that ancient people viewed blood as the essence of life. Blood sacrifice was most probably viewed as sacrificing that which is most sacred.
apo Wrote:I'm not sure you're correct about this. I'd have to do some serious research, but a couple of points, granting I could be wrong. The early Jews associated the breath with life, not the blood. If I recall correctly, there is no Hebrew word for soul in the Old Testament, and any analogous references to it are with words referring to the breath (in Genesis for example, God 'breathed' life into Adam).
The Hebrew word nephesh was used to mean soul, it has others but was used over 400 times in the OT to mean soul. The scriptures show that blood was the life in Genesis when Cain killed Able, God told Cain, Able's blood cried out from the ground, referring that the blood was life. This was before there were Jews.
apo Wrote:It's possible that there was a less than fully explicit understanding of the matter, as I'm sure that people of the time could well associate blood with death, if the Hebrew language and first millennia medicine are any indication, it was not thought of as the life giving substance.
The Jewish people were told by God that the blood was life and in Lev. 17:11 nephesh is used for soul.
Lev. 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the alter to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life.
Lev. 17:14 For the life of all flesh is it's blood: it's blood is it's life.
Duet. 12:23 Only be sure you do not eat the blood, for the blood is the life, and you shall not eat the life with the flesh.
apo Wrote:This of course reminded me of Yahweh and the blood sacrifices, the scapegoat of Jewish legend, Christ, and even the story of Abraham's commandment to sacrifice his son Isaac, in some ways prefiguring the Christ narrative.
That's exactly what those stories were eluding to. The OT is about the coming of Christ.
apo Wrote:What struck me is that blood sacrifice is a pristine example of 'ritual magic'. You perform some action which, on the surface, would not seem to be causally effective in bringing about the result, and yet, because the ritual is performed, the result occurs, magically.
How so, why do you believe that the blood sacrifice was not able to remove the sins of the people, beside that you do not believe in God. God told His people He would for give their sins through a blood sacrifice as long as they were sincere about the sacrificial event.
apo Wrote:You'll note that every time that the God of the bible wants to accomplish a miracle, there is either some ritual involved, or some mechanism involved (the flood and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah).
What ritual or mechanism was used for these two events.
apo Wrote:In one of the gospels, Jesus' healing of a man is preceded by such things as spitting on the affected organs and the like. Why would a god need to use his own bodily fluids to effect a cure? He should just be able to will it to occur. And other events in the Jesus narrative also smell of traditional, ritual magic; his inability to perform when in a hostile/unbelieving town (what in parapsychology is termed "the shyness effect").
Why Jesus used His spit to heal the blind man has been a mystery to me, I guess I've not been curious enough.
Jesus chose not to heal in the situations you refer to, the man who willingly gave His life on a Roman cross could not be shy.
apo Wrote:... The phenomena of prayer is a classic example of ritual magic; performing an ineffective action in the hopes that, through intermediary powers, it will be effected (and note that Christian prayers are directed to other things than their god).
The Catholics might but the protestants pray directly to God only, please do not lump everyone together. How is it you know that prayer is not answered by our God, I've experienced answered prayer on many occasions. Some answered at the time I asked, and others were answer months and even longer from the time I prayed. Some prayers were answered that I had forgotten I prayed until they were answered many months later, I've learned not to give up on answers.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
