RE: Outrage in Italy after bananas are thrown at its first black minister.
July 28, 2013 at 1:17 pm
(July 28, 2013 at 9:53 am)kılıç_mehmet Wrote:I'm not talking PM's or presidents, I'm talking about legislative bodies which represent the public. How can a legislature be representative if it doesn't include minority groups that are present in the general population?(July 28, 2013 at 9:06 am)festive1 Wrote: What I mean by equal representation is equal to the proportion of their minority in the general populace. If they make up 10% of the populace, they should have 10% representation in a legislature. Which isn't even found in the US legislative bodies.
If someone is born in a country, they are citizens of that country. I realize this isn't how it works in a lot of places. However, if they aren't citizens of the country of their birth, what country are they citizens of? The country of their parent's birth? A place they may have never even visited? That is nonsensical. People of Italian ancestry are citizens of Italy by virtue of being born there, so how is supporting this same privilege for minorities in any way biased or special treatment? This is equal treatment of people without regard to their ethnic background.
Your xenophobia is showing, and it's not pretty.
Nehi. Its not as easy as that friend. If the said 10% had lived in the same area and all voted for the same people, yes, sure, why not, they can get their 10% representation within the government.
But in most cases for immigrants at least, they won't.
And if they don't, they won't get a "distinct" representation.
My country has minorities, and only one can represent themselves in such a way because of the reason that they make up the ethnic majority in certain places, they can get PM's that pursue their interests. But its not to say that they have an equal share in the government in contrast with their current percentage of the population. And they probably never will due to the fact they emigrate to areas where they are not the majority and if they vote for their own party, their votes are not enough to win them a PM.
(July 28, 2013 at 9:53 am)kılıç_mehmet Wrote:No. You have only lived in Turkey for your life. Your ancestors have lived there for generations.Quote:If someone is born in a country, they are citizens of that country.That's ridiculous. I have been living in this country for generations, my forefathers have worked, fought and bled for this country, and I am ethnically, culturally and linguistically a member of the majority of the people, and some baby from Somalia is born here and he gets to be a citizen just as I am, just by being born here by accident or by intention? This is not America, lady, nor Canada. Here, citizenship is measured by the ties to the people and the ties to the customs, culture and language.
Riddle me this: What happens when that Somali child grows up and has children? What about the citizenship of that child? Or that child's child? Their family has lived in the country for a few generations. Their familial ties to their country of origin weaken, while their ties and roots in the culture of their adopted country strengthen. Where do these people's citizenship come from? They certainly are more than mere visitors to a country at this point.
(July 28, 2013 at 9:53 am)kılıç_mehmet Wrote:So second generation immigrants get citizenship, glad we cleared that up.Quote: However, if they aren't citizens of the country of their birth, what country are they citizens of? The country of their parent's birth? A place they may have never even visited?Well, if they live in the said country for a period of time, the country will eventually grant them citizenship. However what if I told you that I have a friend that is a US citizen, but has never lived there?
His mother and father were in the states at that time, his mother gave birth to him, and he was granted citizenship. Then they went back. He has no friends, no relatives, nothing whatsoever in the US.
Of course the best is to grant a child the citizenship of their parent's birthplace.
I bet if one of your minority parties took over and started massacring the majority (a deep rooted fear of yours, I'm sure), your buddy would be mighty happy about that dual citizenship he's got going for him. First flight out of Istanbul, please!
(July 28, 2013 at 9:53 am)kılıç_mehmet Wrote:Nay. This IS what is fucked up about the "old" world.Quote: People of Italian ancestry are citizens of Italy by virtue of being born there, so how is supporting this same privilege for minorities in any way biased or special treatment?Well, not by just being born there, they are born as Italians, on the accord that their ancestors were also Italians, and have been living in Italy for who knows how long.
This privilage should be in the hands of italians, since Italy is a nation state, built on the Italian ethnic identity.
Citizenship by birth is a new-world phenomena. Don't try to fuck up the old world with it.
(July 28, 2013 at 9:53 am)kılıç_mehmet Wrote:This is a slippery slope in full deployment. Perhaps instead of destruction of Italian society, there could be a balance reached of celebration of both "old" and "new" cultural influences. Simply granting foreign born immigrants citizenship, would not bring about the end of Italian culture. This is the mad idea, that by being more open is going to end a culture. Yes, a culture will change, but guess what? By having immigrants in a nation will change the culture, regardless if they have citizenship or not.Quote: This is equal treatment of people without regard to their ethnic background.Well, if you have that, what purpose is there to have a nation state at all? If there is equal treatment, perhaps the state of Italy should change its name to something that sounds more "egalitarian" and "foreign to the concept of ethnicity" and declare every minority language to have the same status as Italian.
You people are mad.