RE: Outrage in Italy after bananas are thrown at its first black minister.
July 28, 2013 at 7:22 pm
Quote:I'm not talking PM's or presidents, I'm talking about legislative bodies which represent the public. How can a legislature be representative if it doesn't include minority groups that are present in the general population?Well "PM" or "MP" is short for "parliament member" or "Member of the Parliament" which is means they are a part of the legislative body which is the parliament.
If they have their own parties, or have, say independent candidates, and can actually dish out enough votes to send one to the parliament, why not.
But without votes, no seats. That's the way it works.
Quote:No. You have only lived in Turkey for your life. Your ancestors have lived there for generations.Neither did all of my ancestors. My maternal grandfather came here in his lifetime.
Riddle me this: What happens when that Somali child grows up and has children? What about the citizenship of that child? Or that child's child? Their family has lived in the country for a few generations. Their familial ties to their country of origin weaken, while their ties and roots in the culture of their adopted country strengthen. Where do these people's citizenship come from? They certainly are more than mere visitors to a country at this point.
After the breakup of the Ottoman empire, we left a sizable Turkish minority in the Balkans(and also in Syria, Iraq, Georgia and Crimea), and we got them back after we founded the Turkish republic, with a population exchange. Indeed, he emigrated to the Balkans from this area I live in currently, but that was hundreds of years ago(I'll tell you the history part if you're interested). He has returned to the Turkish homeland here in Anatolia only after the population exchange. But it was due to that fact that he was able to come here, the fact that he was Turkish. Not only him, but Turks from Crimea, Kazan, and from distant Turkestan were granted citizenship on the account of being Turks, as a nation state is built on an ethnic identity, which makes it possible for people of the same ethnicity to come there even if they were not born within its borders(that's how my new zealand born cousin was able to claim citizenship.)
That's the idea, my friend.
The Somalian baby who is born here, if his parents stay here, will be granted citizenship after a certain term, if he is a legal immigrant of course, and if they have property, jobs and etc. will be taken into consideration when granting them citizenship or not. After that, both his/her parents and the child will be granted citizenship.
However just being born here will not grant you citizenship, and it shouldn't, in my opinion,.
If the Somalian child grows up and is able to have children in this country and his children are able to have children in this country, it would mean that he already got a citizenship in his prime years. Really, you cannot stay here illegally to see the birth of your grandchildren.
Also, your second point does not apply here. Even the minorities who have lived here for more then a hundred years still maintain ties to their homeland, they simply refuse to assimilate. Though it is probably worth mentioning that they have a strong ethnic consciousness, which an immigrant will lose after a while, as long as he doesn't form an own ethnic enclave somewhere in the country.
Besides, I'm just contesting the the right to citizenship for immigrants by simply being born on the soil.
If they're a citizen already, that's not my problem.
Quote:So second generation immigrants get citizenship, glad we cleared that up.Well, first generation immigrants might also get citizenship, I didn't say that they couldn't. But with every country, there is a set of criteria to fulfill.
I bet if one of your minority parties took over and started massacring the majority (a deep rooted fear of yours, I'm sure), your buddy would be mighty happy about that dual citizenship he's got going for him. First flight out of Istanbul, please!
Besides, the minority party can't take over, but they certainly have themselves backed with threats of violence, as they maintain ties to armed terrorist groups within and outside of our borders, and I suspect that they have strong ties to Europe, Russia and Israel aswell. So they will use these to make us bow to their every demand. But they are quite the forgetful kind. I really don't wish to go through the trouble of reminding them who calls the shots here.
And well, I know that we have a lot of cowards here, mostly dem rich boys who go through a lot of trouble in order to skip their military duty. He is kind of wealthy, but I trust him to bear the burden when his time comes. He won't flee, but I'm sure quite a many people within our parliament will, in first sight of danger, as will many so-called "liberal intellectuals". May the eyes of cowards never sleep.
Quote:Nay. This IS what is fucked up about the "old" world.The old world still has notions of nations, cultures, differences, languages. Which is why we form nations to be with people who are "like" us. Thankfully, Turkey has no influx of immigrants, though we got a lot of (arab)refugees(with many armed terrorists among them masquarading as refugees), whom will hopefully soon leave the country once this Syrian business is over. I hate refugees. We took up refugees during the Gulf War days. Now most of them have turned up to be ethnic seperatists and smugglers.
Well, that's what you get for being good.
Quote:This is a slippery slope in full deployment. Perhaps instead of destruction of Italian society, there could be a balance reached of celebration of both "old" and "new" cultural influences. Simply granting foreign born immigrants citizenship, would not bring about the end of Italian culture. This is the mad idea, that by being more open is going to end a culture. Yes, a culture will change, but guess what? By having immigrants in a nation will change the culture, regardless if they have citizenship or not.I didn't say it would end the culture, though Italy isn't a primary choice for immigrants to go to in Europe. Just take a look at France and UK, and see for yourself what this lovely wave of immigration has brought them.
New cultural influences, yes, "enrichment" as the politicians speak of it. Now they have discussions about hijabs, riots, and outsourcing of jobs, and increased crime rates.
Angela Merkel has already stated that multiculturalism is a stillborn idea. It doesn't work. Either you go and assimilate in the culture of the majority, or you don't and cause trouble due to the conflicts that you experience with the culture of the majority there.
I went to Europe, I lived there, else I wouldn't be talking about it.
I say that citizenship should only be granted to those who have something to offer to the country, people with education and skills, like engineers, economists and doctors etc. But even then, I'd still not want those in my country, since they'd lead to an outsourcing of jobs for the natives.
That's a problem for especially the UK, which allows for easier immigration and employment to commonwealth countries, which is the reason that they have a lot of Indian/Pakistani doctors and computer engineers.
Wherever there is immgration, there are tensions. I know that you're a nice person and you'd like to think optimistic about things like these, but there are people that were simply not meant to live together side by side...
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