Did They Not Pray Hard Enough

[Drich]

That is confusing. Asking god for things is not prayer,but asking for bread makes it a prayer.

Wanting what God wants for you and you asking Him for it is a prayer.

Your asking God for what you want despite what He has asked you to ask Him for is just a petition and God is not obligated to 'grant your wish.'

Unless you mean that deviating from the template (ie, asking for anything that isn't daily bread) negates the prayer. But in texts like the one Min quoted, there are no specifics and only one requirement (have faith). As with so much of the Bible, this leaves the "rules" of prayer open to many interpretations.

That it is why we are charged in taking everything the bible says and create a understanding that does not conflict or contradict any of it.

I know, I know... everyone else has it wrong.

'Everyone else' simply understands what they can phatom based on what scripture they have exposed themselves to. That is why Christianity is considered a journey or a walk with God. We are all at different points in that walk. Which does not mean that if someone is behind you he is wrong. The only time it becomes 'wrong' is when you know that something is not right yet you stagnate in your faith and do not seek a better understanding.

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Please bear with me, this is my first post on these particular forums and i'm still trying to work out the etiquette.

We've had this discussion before. Short answer is: God is a title and not a Name. As in God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. Or If you perfer something a little more trestial It's like saying Mr, president. We only have one president that is head up the United States, but many different indivisuals have held that office and shared that title.

"I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God. I will gird you, though you have not known Me; That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun That there is no one besides Me. I am the LORD, and there is no other"

But when Jesus was on earth there were 2 as he was also god according to your interpretation? You can't have 2 "Mr Presidents" at the same time.

We have currently have 5 Mr. Presidents, for they do not loose their title when they leave office.

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So Yahweh being the original God and Jesus being the second are now only called God in an honorary sense and the presiding god is now the holy spirit?

Drop the president analogy as it only describes one aspect of the understanding of God. (In that the word God is a title and not a name.) To understand the relationship between the personages of the God head Try going with one goverment 3 branches.

There are now 3 "entities" all sat in heaven called using the title God?

One goverment 3 branches.
Executive, Judicial, Legislative, Each branch is a form or encarnation of goverment but not an indivisual goverment unto itself. In the case of this goverment it takes all three branches to form the one goverment that persides of the United States. Like wise God the Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are all Considered The God of Creation.

surely that means there are more than one God? Also, another entity can also come along and claim to be god?

How many Goverments currently perside over the United States?

This seems to be what you are saying.

How about now?

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luke 11 cinny.

Luke 11
9 “So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

11 “Which of you fathers, if your son asks for[f] a fish, will give him a snake instead? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13 If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”
That's not a disclaimer Dich. In fact it basically says that your fucktard god will actually give even better than your own family because he's the holy fucking king of the world ... and moreover that he WON'T give you something negative in it's place.

how about now, Christ Clearly states what your prayer should be about.

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Didn't read the whole thread, but here goes...

Why do you ask God for anything?

Because we want or need.

If you pray to have a relationship with God, then what do you call a relationship? I suppose you have to know a person deeply, hold conversations about so many things, be able to identify the character, etc. So, you pray and you call it a conversation, right? He talks back?

Talk, back only once. But He has communicated each and everytime I seek direction. For me most of which are based on answer questions. I have only read the bible once in chuncks or sections it it took me a couple of years to do it. But when I seek an answer I know where to look. Even if that answer is found in the obscure corners of the bible I do not know very well. I'll get a 'direction' and simply start reading and will be supprised when I read across the answer I was looking for.

You say yes and believe that the voices you hear in your head are him talking. What does his voice sound like?

He sends 'messengers' their voices vary.

How do you know his character? By what the Bible says?

yes

He's mean. Cruel. Sexist, Really, he is confusing.

So?

So, did they not pray hard enough? They probably did. Thing is, either God ignored them (and knew he would), someone else prayed harder for them to die (and God knew about that, too, all the while they were praying their asses off), it didn't seem like begging, the relationship sucked, or God doesn't doesn't exist. You pick.

-or- Maybe the boy died so that that pastor could have a revelation or come to a different understanding of prayer. Or maybe the boy died so we could have this talk. Or maybe the boy died because he was sick and did not want to live anymore.

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Luke 11
9 “So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

11 “Which of you fathers, if your son asks for[f] a fish, will give him a snake instead? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13 If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”

When people who have left Christianity point to the failure of those verses, we are told that we must not have "a/s/ked" the right way. Yet there are no qualifiers there aside from the implication that you make the effort and god will respond. Min's thread title is sarcastic, but the point is relevant: why does anyone have to try hard enough to get closer to god when scripture seems to tell us that he's practically standing right next to the door, ready to shower us with holy spirit and all kinds of gifts before we even ring the doorbell?

The Qualifier is that one must A/S/K Not ask and seek or just ask and not seek or ask and knock and not seek.

We ask in prayer, we seek in reading the bible, church and in forums like this, we knock by repeating this process. And we continue this process the rest of our lives. It's not a one time thing. I still A/S/K

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But yet they do, verbatim.

I did not say people don't. I simply stated that it is a model of prayer. and then I gave an example of prayer based completely on that model, plugging in my own specifics to make that prayer my own.