(August 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: Hi Folks,
So as most of you know I have been called 'Agnostic Theist' whatever the heck that means I dont know lol.
It means you don't know for sure if God exists (agnostic) and you believe in God (theist).
Quote:1) Do babies and children go to hell?
No because children are not old enough to understand and make their own decisions to be accountable.
I've always wondered about the implications of this... because if that's the case, then why don't we kill *all* babies so that those souls are *guaranteed* to go to heaven? Why put them through the test of life where God's existence is on shaky ground? Eternal bliss is at risk.
Quote:2) Is the New Testament reliable?
Yes because the Old Testament points directly to Jesus and the New Testament.
It's reliability or lack of is independent of whether it's expressing a truth about reality. All that can be said is that it's *necessary* for it to be reliable (as that would be expected of something Divinely inspired) but it's not a *sufficient* reason to believe it really is Divinely inspired. More needs to be taken into account than that, therefore I wouldn't worry too much about this point.
Quote:3) If God is Omnipotent and Omnipresent [then] he created hell
Non-sequitur... but go on...
Quote:, so therefore how can hell be separation from God if he is everywhere?
Hell is separation from God as God chooses not to be in hell with others.
God doesn't get a choice of not being in hell *if* he's omnipresent; he can't withdraw his presence from *anywhere* without losing the attribute of being omnipresent. Funnily enough, that's another thing to add to the list of things God can't do (meaning he's not omnipotent either).
Quote:4) Why did God create hell for eternal torment and torture?
God never mentioned hell as eternal torment and torture – Well not really, many people think dying and having nothing when they die is Torture much like the same way being without God will be torture. God does not tell us a lot about hell.
This isn't even answering the question.
Quote:5) Jesus took the punishment for all our sins – So based upon that to pay our debt should he not be in hell for eternity considering he died a sinner?
No Jesus did not die a sinner at all Jesus was sinless but took the burden of other peoples sin creating a paradox that he could not stay in hell because he himself was a sinner however he could get there because of the sins.
The paradox is that as it stands, there's nothing to accept on our behalf; no sacrifice/justice/grace since Jesus didn't give up *anything* for good. A lamb sacrificed more than Jesus ever did - it died and *stayed* dead. Gone. Never to be seen again. Back to the soil where it came from.
Quote:6) As we know the Bible has been edited and re-written many times, do you think God would punish people for not believing when those same people want to believe but cannot because they cannot trust the Bible?
Yes because they should trust the bible irrespective – It’s God’s word and is never wrong.
That answer begs the question.
Quote:7) Why would God punish us for eternity in hell for a Finite sin?
It’s not that he wants to punish us, It’s because it’s basically the final straw – God did all he could during our earthly lives after which we will be removed from his presence.
He didn't do all he could. He's omniscient meaning that he knew the outcome of his own choices. This means that whatever his will was, he would know *exactly* how to act so that it would be accomplished. This is the basis for the problem of non-belief: if God essentially wants us to be in relationship with him, then why doesn't he show himself like he openly showed himself to Adam and Eve, to Lucifer and his angels? The fact that he doesn't and consequently billions upon billions of souls die living a lie (e.g. Hinduism, Islam, Zoroastrianism, Sihkism etc) for something that was out of their control strongly suggests that God doesn't exist, or he's actually evil.
Quote:8) Did God create evil?
No God created rules in which he deemed were against what his will was, People going against Gods will are evil.
I'd have to agree with this. From reading the Tao Te Ching, I've come to realise that one thing can't exist without its opposite. This means that whatever rules God set in place would mean that the inverse of those rules would be evil. It's an inescapable fact of nature.
Quote:9) Why did God Punish Job?
Because Job was to act as an example for future generations.
I haven't looked at Job in over a year, so I don't have anything to say here.
Quote:10) Why when I started breaking away from God and asked for him to Guide me one last chance did he ignore me?
It’s because for years you have been walking further and further away and you don’t know which way to turn this is of your own making.
Classic. Absolutely *everything* is of our own making, even the character of God in the Bible.
This is another example of God's unwillingness to act in order to achieve his will.
Quote:11) If an Ancient Tribe has not heard about God where do they go?
They will go to heaven because they have now knowledge.
If this is the case, then Christianity is self-defeating. What's the point of a Jewish apocalyptic prophet claiming to be God and leaving dubious evidence for people to go on (if they eventually accept it) when outright ignorant people get a free pass to heaven? Why create such an unnecessary stir in the first place when all that's going to do is possibly turn people *away* from the truth? Paradox is the name of the game.
Quote:12) So what you’re saying is that Christianity should not be preached as people who are ignorant can go to heaven yet those who hear Gods word and reject it will go to heaven?
Yes this is correct, it is because in their heart and mind and soul they will seek God.
Wrong. There's a very famous instance of a missionary who went to convert a tribe but ended up deconverting himself. This is because the tribe had no belief in a creator whatsoever. Either way, the answer is wishful thinking at most, since every other culture comes up with ideas about God that are contradictory to that of Christianity. This is in fact no different to simply being ignorant and getting a free pass to heaven. It's a non-answer.
Quote:13) Would it not have been better not to have been born?
No because God gave us free will we then decided to go against it!
What?! This is *precisely* why it would have been better to not be born.
Quote:14) I don’t like or trust the Apostle Paul, He contradicted a lot of what Jesus and the OT said, Prove it (I got stuck here).
Paul doesn't even know Jesus' mums bloody name! Not once does he mention Mary. But when it comes to contradictions, off the top of my head I can think of one instance which is a little suss:
Romans 8:26
In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans.
It's as if Paul isn't aware that Jesus gave the Sermon on the Mount where he taught everyone the Lord's prayer.
Quote:15) When God says ‘I AM’ he is meaning ‘Mind your own business’?
No God is saying that is name is the unspeakable name that the taught to Moses.
?
Quote:16) Do you believe in the Book of Revelation?
I don’t know.
...
Quote:17) Do you believe it is in some way scriptural and literal?
I don’t know.
...
Quote:18) If someone decides not to believe in God throughout this life – Although God said he would cast people into the lake of fire for eternity, Do you think at the end he will save everyone?
No because God cannot show his Justice to these people if he saves them anyway?
Justice isn't being served if the person being casted to hell didn't have the slightest clue that their theology was completely wrong/didn't even know about Christianity.
Quote:19) What if people in heaven pray to God to forgive them or to take pity, Surely Jesus said anything they ask for he will give them?
Yes but this does not show Gods love if he allows them forgiveness as he has to be a fair and Just God.
This life *isn't* fair though. God is directly to blame for that since he knew some people would never come across Christianity, or those that did might not find it plausible enough.
Quote:20) What is heaven like?
We worship and praise God forever!
You mean praise the Designer of the Faulty Divine Plan for eternity? Sounds like hell!
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle