Yet another school shooting

[Creed of Heresy]

Oh give me a fucking break.

People can and will bring up whatever issues they please. Doesn't mean they aren't sympathetic. To some people the issues they bring up are to try and solve the problem so that children never have to die in such a horrific way. Did that ever occur to you?

Really? So the fact that everyone immediately starts talking about the political issues rather than talking about the incident itself is just nothing, right? I see more hatred and vitriol to the subject of firearms than I do towards the people perpetrating the crimes. Here we have a shooting where nobody was even hurt and it immediately goes to the subject of how firearms make it so much more lethal than any other means. Not a good example. It would occur to me that people are trying to solve the problems if people brought up any other ideas. I think me, Brakeman, and one other person who isn't readily coming to mind at the moment are the only ones who have ever started discussing issues other than gun control to prevent this shit from happening. Where the fuck have YOU ever said otherwise?

No, you just get hung up on the fact you don't agree when people bring up an issue with gun control in your country. That doesn't make you feel comfortable, does it?

It has nothing to do with my comfort. I couldn't give a shit less about possessing a firearm or not anymore; I don't live in a busted-up ghetto and I have other means of occupying my time than the shooting range. My issue is not with gun control, it's with the fact it's the thing people cling to the most as opposed to other methods of preventing this from happening, and that the details of said gun control almost never get discussed in any reasonable context outside of just "WE NEED IT." No shit Sherlockses, of course we need it, but in what way, to what extent, and how do we go about implementing it?

Just because you disagree with the fact that people bring it up, doesn't mean what they're saying is "messed up" etc.

Again, it's because it's ALL THEY FUCKING BRING UP. I'm tired of people whining about guns constantly instead of going "what the fuck is causing this shit, and how do we stop it?"

[quoteNor does it mean they don't care about the victims, in fact, it's quite the opposite.[/quote]

If you'd read my second post, you would have realized I corrected myself about that and had merely spoken in haste.

No shit! He didn't get it legally? OMG well that just immediately invalidates everyone's points about gun control! Right? RIGHT?!?

First, calm down, you're getting even more worked up than I am (no easy feat), and second of all, YEAH. KIND OF. If gun control laws that outright state he cannot purchase it legally didn't prevent him from getting this gun...then what the fuck kind of gun controls would? I would be interested in hearing any ideas instead of just the usual "we need more gun control laws!" That's great, I'm all on board with this, and this will address what follows below...which I will continue when I quote that, in fact.

Criminals don't care about the law? REALLY????

You think because guns are illegal to carry in the UK we automatically have no gun related deaths or shootings? Ofcourse not. You said that yourself. No one has said he got the gun legally, but it doesn't invalidate the proposition that better regulation and control of guns in America would of perhaps made it harder for him to access such a gun.

...Why would you say "You think because..." and then immediately follow with "you said that yourself." Clearly I don't think that and you know it. ._. However, we are in agreement; there is a need for better regulation and a means of more closely tracking firearm possession.

Quick aside and something I would like to actually discuss with everyone; a suggestion that there is a yearly check required for every firearm possessed wherein proof of firearm possession or certificate of sale must be presented to, say, the ATF; failure to provide results in a $5,000 fine; theft of the weapon does not prevent this fine because this would demonstrate that the weapon was not secured sufficiently, which is gross negligence on the part of the owner.

If you want to compare the UK and USA like you so conveniently brought up, take a look at the comparison of gun related deaths in both countries.

Here, in case you can't be arsed to do it yourself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cou...death_rate

No one here to the best of my knowledge has said better gun control would stop these incidents from happening, but I'd bet my life that it would stop them from being such a common occurrence.

That's a fine list and all but it doesn't take into account every other act of homicide, nor does it factor into account poverty and mental health considerations. And, by the way, if you want to talk about common occurrences of these school butcherings?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_att...ry_schools

Look at all those ones listed from China involving nothing but knives. Sweet tittyfucking shit, it looks like it happens three times a damn month these days. Here's a strange thing, though...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_att...ry_schools

Notice how many more incidents happen involving secondary schools (I think that's grades 9-12, right?). Most of them are caused by juveniles with guns, from which I think we can safely infer that these are likely taken from their parents...which again lends itself to my previous proposition that there must be something ensure that gun owners take the idea of securing their weapons MUCH more seriously than they currently do.

Now I don't personally know how he got hold of such a weapon, could be you're right, and he went to some illegal black market to purchase his gun, something gun regulation wouldn't really help (which is probably still debatable, but I'll concede that one if you like). Or he got it off a legitimate gun owner who was careless in keeping it. Now if he say stole it off someone who should of kept that gun in a gun safe but didn't, I'd turn to you and ask why someone had such a gun in the first place, and why it wasn't better looked after. Then I'd try and suggest ways to make the place a bit safer. But here's the thing, none of this means that I don't give a fuck about those kids who were shot. So get off your god damn moral high horse.

I'll get off my moral high horse when people stop whining about the guns, and start actually putting forth some ideas on how to take care of this problem. Some TANGIBLE ideas. Not just "guns are bad mm-k?" shit, I tire of hearing that, all it sounds like to me is political whining and I'm sick of hearing it.

To me, it's you who has "whacked out priorities".

I didn't see you putting forth any ideas, either. I've come up with this shit in other threads, I've asked for discussion on it, I've never gotten a fucking thing, nobody has ever discussed this shit, they just keep bitching about how guns are bad and how gun control laws are good without ever providing any details on anything. So, yeah, I TOTALLY have whacked-out priorities, right? Give me a fucking break, Napo.

If there is a problem I personally tend to look for solutions, rather than dwell on the problem. Guess I've "fucked up as an empathetic individual" eh?

Then for goodness' sake, let's look for the solutions. We're grown-ass men, let's discuss this shit! If you're willing to, I'd be extremely eager to talk about this stuff and trade ideas.

And for the record, when I say "I tend look for solutions", I just think better gun control is one of those potential solutions.

I agree. It IS just one. It's one we certainly need to focus on, but just saying "gun controls are good" isn't really enough.

See, that's why I think the gun-control lobby is doing so piss-poor against the gun-ownership lobby. It has nothing to do with money, even though that's part of it. The problem is that the gun-control lobby can never manage to really make a coherent argument. Everyone comes to the table going "GUN CONTROL, GUN CONTROL, WHOO HOO GUN CONTROL!" but then...there's never any agreement. The ideas are all over the place or haphazard or half-assed and sometimes they're designed to do little more than rile up the NRA.

Personally, I find "appealing to the opposition" so to speak, in this case, could be very feasible, and would work a lot better. Convince the NRA that the measures will NOT be eating into rifle or handgun sales, but rather will be bolstering responsibility and safety (which can in turn make the whole gun-ownership thing taken even more seriously, with NRA members becoming much more intense and intelligent about everything, which can in turn result in a more reliable membership base), and they probably won't go all "FRUM URR CULD, DURRD HURRNDS" every time the discussion comes up.

I personally don't give a rat's ass what kinda gun someone owns. You wanna own a .50-caliber anti-materiel rifle? Well, did you clear a background check, a mental health check, and pass an extensive test on gun safety and responsibility, and did you purchase the necessary equipment to secure it and ensure it stays out of the hands of anyone but yourself? Yes? Then cool, fine, enjoy your boomstick. No? Rejected, and depending on the situation, you may or may not try again later.

People get all riled up when they're gun owners because of the idea of having to make gun ownership so much more difficult but seriously, I've been in possession of firearms of all kinds for quite a long damn time. Many of which, I did not acquire legally, and I realize just how easy it is to get this shit on the streets when our piss-poor controls and regulations fail. I've since registered them all, and I keep them under lock and key. Yes, I went through the hell of registering illegally-obtained firearms with the ATF and ensuring they are kept secured from anyone but me. If I can do it, so can anyone else, and anyone who wants to complain is fucking lazy and irresponsible and not respecting just what it is they are carrying in their hands.

Guns are no fucking joke, they're not toys, they're not something you are supposed to take lightly. I'm sick of these yahoo cowboys slinging guns around like they're movie props and thinking they look cool when all they look like is a bunch of children playing at being adults. "I hide mine in a SHUUBAWKS in mah closiit cuz dat gonn' keep dem safe from mah keeyids, hyuk hyuk hyuk!" No you fucking idiot, all it takes is the kid having two connected brain cells to guess where the fuck mommy and daddy's controlled-explosion-in-a-metal-tube is hidden and suddenly little Jimmy's just ventilated his best friend at the age of five. A shoebox isn't sufficient, nor is just hiding it.

Buy a fucking safe, or a locker, and keep that shit stowed the fuck away! Hell, it's better that way if you get a locker; get one of those controlled-environment ones like I've got for an extra $50, keeps your shit in better condition for longer AND it keeps it out of the hands of other people. You ever try to break into one of those things? The shit you would need to do so would make the guns you're trying to get at look like butter knives!

So, yeah, those are my ideas, and I want people to discuss them with me.